Live data from Hacker News

The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

drericlevi.substack.com

311–320 of 521 posts

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the health care system is dramatically overwhelmed. There are not enough doctors for the demand.

And that's because of Medicare? How do you figure?

See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40029190

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#312
The sooner this type of job is automated the better imo. What’s the point of having people working so hard they end up dying?

Also I’ve suffered a misdiagnosis that ruined my life in my early years so it’s not like doctors are heroes either. We never hear about the failures only the successful stuff at the bleeding(heh) edge.

They make mistakes, they’re just humans.

Everyone glorifies their profession but what about the people who suffer misdiagnosis? Have to live the rest of their life in misery because of incompetence.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#313
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an anesthesiologist. Two years ago I switched to doing 100% software engineering. I had already worked in software, but not full time. There were many reasons. More time with my family was a big one. Work not being intellectually challenging was a another.

Having worked in software before must have made it easier to change profession? I have not so I think I need formal training, I am a programming hobbyist writing in python and did some SQL for databases for research. I guess I need to have really tough problems to solve, when I succeed, there is almost nothing like it, the feeling of accomplishment.

I had already contributed to some open source projects and had also done some fairly large freelance projects. I'm sure this made me more hireable.

I'm not sure I will give up anesthesiology 100%, in the end I'd like to combine and work on "medtech". Currently I work with automotive radar.

Feel free to reach out!

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#314
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because doctors' associations and regulatory bodies (like AAMC in the US) lobby to keep it that way to keep the value of their profession up.

> Because doctors' associations and regulatory bodies (like AAMC in the US) lobby to keep it that way to keep the value of their profession up. This isn't true of the AAMC position in the US today, and when it was true in the 90s, there were many articles about an upcoming oversupply of physicians. First, US medical school graduating classes are smaller in number than the number of available residency positions. So e…

> First, US medical school graduating classes are smaller in number than the number of available residency positions.

That's because the artificial restriction is placed on entrants to study, not qualified post-study graduates.

And it really is a purely artificial restriction: in the 90s, in SA, when affirmative action was implemented (where a C student from a particular background would get placed before an A student from a different background) didn't result in any measurable difference to the resulting quality of doctors.

We literally have a small experiment showing that allowing C students into med school doesn't affect the outcomes, and yet there is still a very limited intake into medical schools, and this is purely an artificial limitation.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#315
The sad thing is that there is an optimal number for working hours for employees in "potential emergency jobs". It is around 85% or so. (I forgot the source, I think it was Gerd Gigerenzer on managing risks.) This way, they can handle most emergencies in a good way.

Reality is that many doctors in a hospital work 120% already. This either kills the doctors or the patients.

The issue is that most doctors genuinely want to help their patients and feel some kind of personal responsibility and thus, can easily be exploited by the healthcare system to work longer hours. If they don’t do it, patients die, because there is no one else taking care of these patients.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#316
post #30

Something I've never quite understood is why, in the UK, we cap the number of medical students per year. I've known very bright people who aspired to be doctors but had their applications turned down only to go on to do phds and become scientists instead. I'd rather have twice as many doctors who work sensible hours rather than the status quo burn out. Looks like there are calls to change this. https://commonslibrary…

Training places are already rammed to the gills, there aren't enough places to put substantially more students. Junior doctors already have to compete to get training slots even vaguely where they live and if they miss that they simply have to physically move to a different city. Medical training isn't as simple as just adding a lecture theatre and a few classrooms, or even a whole university building faculty of lect…

> Medical training isn't as simple as just adding a lecture theatre and a few classrooms, or even a whole university building faculty of lecturers and admin. You also need a hospital (and GP surgeries etc) to be attached as well as enough senior staff to train them when they are there. That training is very intensive on trainer:trainee ratios and the senior staff are also in critically short supply as the ones who were trained up when there was training capacity (which, to be fair, was a time when it was far cheaper to train a medical student), are retiring by the thousands and many newer junior doctors quit or emigrate as a result of their experiences up to that point.

All easily solvable:

1. * You also need a hospital (and GP surgeries etc) to be attached as well as enough senior staff to train them when they are there. *

Only for the final 2 years of a total of 7 years of study, which means if we ramp up entrants for 2025, the extra new facilities need to be ready only in 2032.

2. * That training is very intensive on trainer:trainee ratios and the senior staff are also in critically short supply *

Not a problem for a career which is regulated with a national body - simply enforce a minimum number of hours of teaching/mentorship per year to renew mambership of that body. Since the full capacity will only be needed by 2032, this can be done progressively over 7 years.

3. * are retiring by the thousands and many newer junior doctors quit or emigrate as a result of their experiences up to that point.*

Simple: you currently don't get to qualify as a practicing doctor simply by passing exams, so withhold certification until a minimum time has been spent in mentorship/public health services.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#317
post #283

I am a working physician (50+) that is currently in training to become an IT professional, preferably working with development of new patient records systems. Being a physician is just not very intellectually challenging, more emotionally challenging, programming is in my mind a real challenge. Any others with experience of changing fields?

I trained as a doctor, then family practice for a few years, but since the middle of my studies, I realised my main passion was the more technical aspects. I did a bachelor's in electronics engineering while working 50% as a doctor the first two years, and with the last year dedicated only to studying. I realised a bachelor's would not be enough to get the engineering jobs I desired, so I went back to medicine and started training as a radiologist. There they agreed to fund me doing PhD research 50% of my time, and I am now doing a PhD using AI diagnosing dementia from MRI scans--basically my dream job, while working 50% as a radiologist which also is fun and intellectually very rewarding.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#318
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s extremely beneficial to the people who are already doctors (dramatically increases salary, prestige, power), and that is a powerful group in most societies.

I think it comes down to, if you read the history of the American Medical Association, that some doctors simply didn’t like a free market pushing down prices for their services.

then again, who does

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you? I’d love to hear that answer.

I have. Longer shifts with fewer turn-overs results in better patient outcomes.

I would agree, assuming the patient workload is appropriate, I think it all depends on how busy the place is. I've chosen to do 24 hour ER shifts instead of 2 12-hour shifts in a place that would see about 1-1.25 patients per hour, mostly during the day so I would usually get 2-6 hours sleep overnight. But in a busier place, I would much rather work a 12, 10 or 8 hour shift as the intensity increases, say to 2-3 patients per hour. And the case mix also matters a lot, if you have a bunch of patients with coughs and colds, or minor injuries, you can see 4 an hour easily, if everyone is a demented nursing home patient or requires a translator, seeing 2 / hour might be crazy hard.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#320

One of my friends I grew up with was “that kid;” smartest in the community, funny, played a mean guitar. Everyone loved him. Top of class. Harvard. Harvard med. Top placement for residency. Something happened during that time and he killed himself. It was absolutely unexpected from all of his friends. Shocking to say the least. Apparently it turned out to be stress from work, his hours, his fear of failing. Who will…

Can't medical doctors have duty time limits like aircrews. Wouldn't that alleviate some of the overwork.

it's not like the whole profession has the same contract, but working hours in public healthcare should be regulated, i agree
Post reply on HN