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European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

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Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#311
post #117

Windshield wipers should be 100% automated for majority of the cars

Do any cars have 100% reliable rain detection?

Most are pretty good in my experience, with the exception of Tesla. Tesla’s auto-wipers are comically bad. They NEVER work well because they try to use a tiny camera mounted to the top of the windshield to determine when to trigger them. The camera is probably unable to actually focus on the windshield itself, especially since it is also used for the driver assistance features and has to be focused at road-distance, so my guess is they’re using some kind of algorithm to try and detect distortion caused by rain drops on the windshield for an image captured with focus significantly further away than the windshield surface itself. And that challenge has so far remained unsolved. Tesla just pretend to have working auto-wipers.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in a place where this is frequently required, in a Tesla you can put the defrost button on the shortcut bar at the bottom of the screen, where it only requires a quick glance to align your thumb to activate it. Which is actually easier than many cars with physical controls that may require multiple button presses and/or knob turns to configure all of the correct climate settings for defrosting in the curr…

Much easier to have a single physical button.

Overstated. It's at best marginally easier to hit a random physical button on the center console than to hit a single button on the bottom bar of a Tesla screen, where it is very easy to grab by design. I generally don't hit those physical buttons without at least a glance, and that's all it takes for the Tesla bottom bar buttons too.

This doesn't save the wiper situation, though, because that requires navigating menus. Clearly far worse than a physical control in that case.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#313

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

Teslas don't have physical blinker switches?? That is pure lunacy, are you telling me they're touchscreen activated now?

From the article:

> Tesla is probably at greatest risk here, having recently ditched physical stalks that instead move the turn signal functions to haptic buttons on the steering wheel.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#314
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? Yes: https://antiquecarmuseumofiowa.org/wp-content/uploads/1913-F... Well ... "are" is kinda stretching it...

My 1995 Renault Clio had it as a button on the indicator stalk. Worked very well, in my view. Much easier than pressing the centre of the steering wheel. There's often no need to even move your hand!

Our family Peugeot 305 also had the horn on the indicator stalk.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas don't have physical blinker switches?? That is pure lunacy, are you telling me they're touchscreen activated now?

From the article: > Tesla is probably at greatest risk here, having recently ditched physical stalks that instead move the turn signal functions to haptic buttons on the steering wheel.

That's legitimately insane to me. Plus you don't even get that satisfying clunk of turning the blinkers on.

God the future is turning out so lame...

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#316

Eh. Let the market decide. Yes Tesla overdid the touch controls - but they were also the first company to put a touch screen that isn’t awful into a car. Yes, removing the stalks a going too far imo, but I can’t imagine how narrow my awareness of the world must be for that to register outrage. I almost got hit by a porche 911 gt2 today. That car is completely mechanical - but it was being driven by an aggressive idio…

You can take comfort in the fact that the idiot’s repair costs will be ridiculously high. If you’re going to drive super aggressively on public roads, at least do it in a cheap car!

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#317
Apart from the logical notion of fix location tactile feedback physical buttons are much much better (reliable!) in mission critical systems than pleasuring a glass with the strokes of you finger in heist discovery what is what and where (that the US navy also discovered through bitter and tragic experience [1]) as a complicating factor the user hostile software engineering practices where The Product is in the focus and drawing lots of additional attention, requiring constant self training - ironically presented as 'intuitive' or 'simple' - additional frequent maintenance and care, more than necessary (updates, settings, confirmations, feature promotions, suggestions, configurations, customizations), not to mention the manipulation of the user into something as the main focus in making apps nowadays instead of serving in the background, also not to mention the constant spying for their own sake only, also the constant f ups making the system dangerously fragile through complexity that additional steps and even more user attentions is essential(!) to preserve the integrity against intruders - making it even more complex and so, fragile -, and that this became a totally accepted treat of software from a huge set of users as well - several times arguing aginst themselves by praising and 'explaining' (no, citing a particular viewpoint is not an explanation alone) - but at least not condemned beyond private audience or leading to refusal, therefore when we talk about our next car an older model (likely used) with traditional dashboard is an overwhelmingly dominant choice with my wife. After our current 'old' and traditional one. The irony is that I make software for living, I am supposed to love using software. No, I do not. In general, regrettably. Should be pushed out of many places it got into along undigested rush (and many times dumb) ideas. Like this, like the dashboard of a car, replacing well known and familiar ways with something else. Should I instead be greateful that we still have steering wheel and pedals instead of a gamepad?....

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49319450

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#318

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

>However, the absence of a physical speed control for the windshield wipers is the single worst design flaw of Teslas.

The fog lights are much worse

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#319
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Almost all cars except some concepts and prototypes have mechanical link between the steering wheel and the steering rack. Even if the link is augmented by a hydraulic or electronic booster. If a booster fails you have a chance of overpowering it, it's not that strong. A faulty steer-by-wire will swing you into the oncoming lane with no recourse.

I think the lack of redundancy is the issue. Redundant electrical connections can be very robust otherwise they wouldn't put them in F-35s.

The F-35 took like 25 years and a staggering amount of billions to develop...

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even then, how do you find the A/C or volume control on a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road, without accidentally touching something else? You just can't feel your way to the volume knob. Sure, you are a responsible driver and would only do that at a traffic light or other completely safe situation, but I don't know how many accidents touch controls in cars already caused with less responsible dr…

Volume is on the steering wheel. A/C is automatic and I don't need to touch it the vast majority of the time. While driving the most I might want to do is adjust the temperature, and since it's not safety critical I can choose a convenient time. It's at the bottom of the screen so it is easy to do by grabbing behind the bezel and only requires a quick glance to align your thumb. In practice I glance at physical A/C c…

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