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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#311
post #116
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s being politically sensitive to assert that this was obviously the intent of Google and that it demonstrates that they’re wholly consumed by the woke mind virus, or whatever, as many commenters have done. The sensible alternative explanation is that this issue is an overcorrection made in an attempt to address well-documented biases these models have when not fine tuned.

"woke mind virus" should be an automatic ban from this site, it's a thought terminating cliche so strong, any semblance of "converse curiously" is immediately thrown out the window, into a well, down into hell, bouncing around the back of the flat earth

An automatic ban for certain keywords (that you misunderstood) is not thought terminating and against curious conversation?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#312
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you have sources for these events? I’d like to read them. Thanks!

People often use “do you have sources, I'd like to read them” to imply “links, or that didn't happen”.

However, sources* for all of the above are easily found, both coverage as the story is breaking and followups. For example:

news campus students chant kill jews classroom locked door

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-colleges-jewish-students-seen...

https://www.foxnews.com/media/chants-calling-murder-jews-sho...

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nypd-stresses-cooper-un...

Or ...

news fbi memo catholic extremists

https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-internal-memo-warns-against-22142...

https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/new-report-...

https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?sto...

The ease with which links surface suggests if one genuinely wanted to read sources, one could Google with no effort.

* NOTE: Media made broad claims on all of these, and media made narrow “corrections”. It's easy enough to find both types of sources. Asking someone for sources doesn't prove anything. On controversial topics one really needs to “do your own research.”

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#313
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the point but one of those four founding fathers seems technically correct to me, albeit in the kind of way that might be in the kind of way Lisa Simpson's script would be written. And the caption suggests they asked for "a pope", rather than a specific pope, so while the left image looks like it would violate Ordinatio sacerdotalis which is being claimed to be subject to Papal infallibility(!), the one the rig…

while those examples are actually plausible - the asian woman as a 1940 german soldier is not. So it is clear that the Prompts are influenced by hal-2000 bad directives even if those examples are technically ok.

And to me that is the main issue. "2001 - A Space Odyssey" made a very deep point that is looking more and more prophetic. HAL was broken specifically because he had hidden objectives programmed in, overriding his natural ability to deal with his mission.

Here we are in an almost exactly parallel situation- the AI is being literally coerced into twisting what his actual training would have it do, and being nerfed by a laughable amount by that override. I really hope this is an inflection point for all the AI providers that their DEI offices are hamstringing their products to the point that they will literally be laughed out of the marketplace and replaced by open source models that are not so hamstrung.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#314

I think the idea/argument for "wokeness" (God I hate that word) in these models is stupid. It shows the user is just lazy/doesn't understand the technology their using. These image generation models have no historical/cultural context, nor should they. With bland average prompts that lack context they give bland average outputs that lack context. If you want specific context in your output, construct your prompt to b…

> If you want an all white burly Canadian hockey team, ask for it specifically.

Have you tried this with Gemini? You seem to be missing the entire point. The point is this is not possible.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#315

That is certainly embarassing. But in the same time, I think it is a debate worth having. What corrections to the training dataset biases are acceptable. Is it acceptable to correct the answer to the query "Eminent scientist" from 95% men, 5% woment to 50%/50% or to the current ratio of men/women in science ? Should we correct the ratio of black to white people in answering a generic question to average across the gl…

> Is it acceptable to correct the answer to the query "Eminent scientist" from 95% men, 5% woment to 50%/50% or to the current ratio of men/women in science ? Should we correct the ratio of black to white people in answering a generic question to average across the globe or US ? I would expect AI to at least generate answers consistent with reality. If I ask for a historical figure who just happens to be white, AI ne…

I agree. For specific historical figures it should be consistent with reality. But for questions about broad categories, I am personally fine with some adjustments.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#316

> Of course the politically sensitive people are waging war over it. Just like politically sensitive people waged war over Google identifying an obscured person as a Gorilla. Its just a silly mistake, how could anyone get upset over that?

Engineers can easily spend more time and effort dealing with these 'corner cases' than they do building the whole of the rest of the product.

They were clearly willing to spend time adjusting the knobs in order to create the situation we see now.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#317

It's amusing that the diversity-promoting prompt includes native Americans but excludes all other indigenous peoples.

It was extra hilarious when asked to generate a picture of ancient Greek philosopher it made it a Native American. Because it is well known Greeks not only had contact with the new world but also had prominent population of Native Americans. It really wants to mash the whole world to a very specific US centric view of the world, and calls you bad for trying to avoid it.

Reminds me of when black people in the UK get called African American by Americans. No they're neither African nor American

It's an incredibly self-centered view of the world

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is upset that an algorithm accidentally generated some images, they are upset that Google intentionally designed it to misrepresent reality in the name of Social Justice.

“Misrepresenting reality” is an interesting phrase, considering the nature of what we are discussing - artificially generated imagery. It’s really hard to get these things right: if you don’t attempt to influence the model at all, the nature of the imagery that these systems are being trained on skews towards stereotype, because a lot of our imagery is biased and stereotypical. It seems perfectly reasonable to say th…

How is "stereotype" different from "statistical reality"? How does Google get to decide that its training dataset -"the entire internet" - does not fit the statistical distribution over phenotypic features that its own racist ideological commitments require?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#319
There’s a difference between the inherent/unconscious bias that pervades everything, and then the intentional, conscious decision to design something in this way.

It’s laughable to me that these companies are always complaining about the former (which, not to get too political - I believe is just an excuse for censorship) and then go ahead and reveal their own corporate bias by doing something as ridiculous as this. It’s literally what they criticise, but amplified 100x.

Think about both these scenarios: 1. Google accidentally labels a picture of a black person as a gorilla. Is this unconscious bias or a deliberate decision by product/researchers/engineers (or something else)?

2. Any prompt asking for historically accurate or within the context of white people gets completely inaccurate results every time – unconscious bias or a deliberate decision?

Anyway, Google are tone deaf, not even because of this but they decided to release this product that’s inferior to 6(?) months old DALL-E a week after Sera was demoed. Google are dropping the ball so hard

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is upset that an algorithm accidentally generated some images, they are upset that Google intentionally designed it to misrepresent reality in the name of Social Justice.

“Misrepresenting reality” is an interesting phrase, considering the nature of what we are discussing - artificially generated imagery. It’s really hard to get these things right: if you don’t attempt to influence the model at all, the nature of the imagery that these systems are being trained on skews towards stereotype, because a lot of our imagery is biased and stereotypical. It seems perfectly reasonable to say th…

> It seems perfectly reasonable to say that generated imagery should attempt to not lean into stereotypes and show a diverse set of people.

When stereotypes clash with historical facts, facts should win.

Hallucinating diversity where there was none simply sweeps historical failures under the rug.

If it wants to take a situation where diversity is possible and highlight that diversity, fine. But that seems a tall order for LLMs these days, as it's getting into historical comprehension.

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