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Write code for the web

mrmr.io

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Re: Write code for the web

#311

Post by carlosjobim »

shirogane86x wrote: post #289
singron wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a developer pulls out of Apple, the developer loses half of their mobile market, and Apple loses a single customer. I guess if you got all developers to leave Apple, and then all iOS users switched to Android, then it could hurt Apple more than developers, but that's probably not happening.

I am pretty sure iOS has way less than 50% market share globally? So if your target audience is global I am guessing you lose less, on average

iOS has the paying customers who respect developers by actually paying for their apps. This makes hackers rage and bite the hand that feeds them.

Re: Write code for the web

#312

Post by p_l »

ncann wrote: post #292
kmeisthax wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber has the same problem that Death Stranding and Resident Evil have: you can't keep shittons of data cached on-device unless you have it installed as an app and not a webpage. Uber specifically needs to support someone traveling from Sao Paulo, Brazil to Mumbai, India without needing to have more than a whisper of connectivity at their destination. The way you do that is by keeping the UI for every payment provider…

I haven't run into no-network situation with Uber ever since every airport has wifi nowadays, but in that situation with no network, how does local on-device Uber data help to book a ride?

Imagine spotty, dropping connection, low bandwidth.

You do not want to load big chunk of JS because it was never cached, or as Uber used to do, download all the possible new promos every time you opened the app...

You want to squeeze through the minimal data you need to arrange your core business function.

Re: Write code for the web

#313

Post by motoxpro »

bmitc wrote: post #119
motoxpro wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the GP. I feel like you're trying to walk into a steakhouse and ask for pancakes KNOWING it was a steakhouse before you went in. Pancakes are great, but it says steakhouse right on the sign that says "We sell steak and nothing else"

The analogy doesn't work. It's not like Apple provides their platform and then if you don't want to use it then fine, you're on your own. They are actively hostile towards you doing something else. If I leap off your analogy, which again doesn't really work, it's as if they throw tomatoes from their steakhouse as you go towards the pancake house.

If you go and develop for android (the pancake house) how can they possibly be hostile toward you? Sure if your want to develop for both then it's not ideal, and I agree it sucks to have to learn two languages, but that's not apples problem.

Re: Write code for the web

#314

Post by jitl »

rubicon33 wrote: post #191
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #15

Early on, I made the choice to not to invest in learning native mobile development. I focused all my limited time on the web, and I think that, for once, I made the right choice. Today, one can build amazing stuff for the browser. And, in my very humble opinion, the vast majority of apps should've been WebApps — except for maybe Uber, Google Drive, and games. I worked in the journalism business, and, in my country, t…

I just wish Web wasn't such a frustrating development experience. While it has improved leaps and bounds in the last decade, I still find it to be suboptimal when compared to native offerings. Most of that frustration comes down to tooling and more specifically TypeScript. I'm not sure how to succinctly express my pain here but I have found generally that I wrestle with the type system in TypeScript far more than nat…

I stopped wanting to write SwiftUI because the compiler there is the worst I’ve ever used. It uses some kinds of complicated inference for ViewBuilders, and the inference can get confused if you have a type error and deadlock checking a View. It’ll put an error squiggle on an entire function and say “sorry we timed out trying to typecheck this, can you figure it out?” I’ve never used any typed language compiler that gives up on 100 line or less functions.

Re: Write code for the web

#315

Post by skydhash »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #41

To the degree that you can describe a company in general as such, Apple is one of the most arrogant companies I've ever had to deal with, sometimes as a customer, more often as a developer and very much so when I was involved with a partner in one of their many supply chains. I think this is true at the same time that it's also true that they currently create some of the highest quality, almost perfectly fully integr…

While I agree with your opinion, my own stance is that my needs supersede the tools. I have a few HomePods, but only because my music sources are my MBA and my iPhone. While I've wished that they have bluetooth and line in. And they will be replaced if I ever switch to something that does not support Airplay. I have the Apple TV, but that's because Infuse exists. I'm prepared to switch from anything that does not allow me to do what I want to do.

Re: Write code for the web

#316

Post by ciconia »

rubicon33 wrote: post #191
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #15

Early on, I made the choice to not to invest in learning native mobile development. I focused all my limited time on the web, and I think that, for once, I made the right choice. Today, one can build amazing stuff for the browser. And, in my very humble opinion, the vast majority of apps should've been WebApps — except for maybe Uber, Google Drive, and games. I worked in the journalism business, and, in my country, t…

I just wish Web wasn't such a frustrating development experience. While it has improved leaps and bounds in the last decade, I still find it to be suboptimal when compared to native offerings. Most of that frustration comes down to tooling and more specifically TypeScript. I'm not sure how to succinctly express my pain here but I have found generally that I wrestle with the type system in TypeScript far more than nat…

> I just wish Web wasn't such a frustrating development experience.

I have to say, having recently gone back to doing some web dev work (doing some dashboards with lots of D3 visualisations), I was pleasantly surprised to see how better things have gotten. working with CSS is better (with stuff like grid, flex, nested selectors), and JS is also much much better (import maps, fetch API).

I'd say for developing cross-platform apps it's a pretty good deal.

Re: Write code for the web

#317

Post by toastercat »

skydhash wrote: post #309
toastercat wrote: post #56

Reading this reminded me of two recent experiences I've had with Apple products, myself being solely a Windows and Linux user my whole life. 1. Friend gave me his old iPhone. I'm already happy with my current Android phone, so decided I would turn into a Retro emulation machine. I went to install Retroarch only to find that the steps for installing Retroarch on iOS is convoluted, doesn't allow auto update of cores, m…

1. A quick research would have shown that Apple don't support sideloaded software on iOS 2. I see that Photos on iOS has an "Export Unmodified Original" on the share sheet that send the picture to Files. So you could probably connect to SMB share and export that way. I agree that Apple products are not for you. But Apple has always specify a Right Way (tm) to use their products. You either like it or not. Anything el…

1. Yes, if it wasn't clear, I realized this in my attempts to install Retroarch. It was unintuitive to me as someone who uses Windows, Linux, and Android where I can install and run whatever I want to.

2. Chances are that was not obvious to me, or I tried and had no success. This was a while ago, so I may have forgotten other things I attempted. Still, I'm dumbfounded that these amazingly innovative silicon valley companies have failed (or refused) to make transferring files between devices simple.

You're right about Apple having their "Right Way". I think it's an absolute dogshit way, but I guess that's why they call it a walled garden.

Re: Write code for the web

#318

Post by dickersnoodle »

65 wrote: post #127
dickersnoodle wrote: post #85

Go ahead and write "code for the web" but be prepared to have to choose among a bunch of different JS libraries and CSS design systems depending on who the CTO is for your organization and who has their ear; writing bare-metal HTML/CSS and minimal Javascript won't get you far with the C-suite and you'll be pulling your hair out trying to get things to play nicely with each other (or wind up digging through five or te…

Huh? If you don't want to write bare HTML/CSS/JS you can use one of the many frameworks that make writing web apps easier. Even if you hate React or Vue you can use Alpine. If you really hate Javascript you can use HTMX. The web has the best tooling out of any platform because it's the biggest platform. It also has the best documentation... because it's the biggest platform. I don't know what your point is, that web…

My point is that web development is a lot more of a moving target than iOS Native Development and it's largely because Apple makes the hardware, the software, the development tools and the languages and frameworks and they all work together. There are open source libraries in there (SQLite for the default data persistence layer) but it's all vetted and works.

I've been a web developer before (all the way back to and before the ExtJS days) and while I _can_ do it I really prefer not to. The web does not have "the best tooling out of any platform" or "the best documentation... because it's the biggest platform". The tooling tends to be all over the place (until Visual Studio Code takes over the planet... :/) and frameworks like React or Vue hide a lot of complexity that you have to dig into if something goes blooey. This is not to mention the page bloat or security holes you get when you include some handful of analytics "libraries".

Re: Write code for the web

#319

Post by dickersnoodle »

aniforprez wrote: post #140
dickersnoodle wrote: post #85

Go ahead and write "code for the web" but be prepared to have to choose among a bunch of different JS libraries and CSS design systems depending on who the CTO is for your organization and who has their ear; writing bare-metal HTML/CSS and minimal Javascript won't get you far with the C-suite and you'll be pulling your hair out trying to get things to play nicely with each other (or wind up digging through five or te…

I would, a million times, pick writing web apps over interacting with Xcode in any capacity or deal with the proprietary project formats or deal with git in an iOS app project or debug the arcane errors that xcode spits out. Drilling down to figure out where a div is that I need to change is child's play in comparison. You are citing imaginary problems. CSS-in-JS is not that bad and, given the choice, you don't even…

They are not imaginary problems. And Apple's DX isn't "incredibly poor"; coding SwiftUI views with Canvas and the #Preview macro is a dream compared to farting around with Eclipse or one of it derivatives.

Re: Write code for the web

#320

Post by depressedpanda »

threeseed wrote: post #287
depressedpanda wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, Apple's lackluster support or PWAs doesn't help. Holding the web back is entirely intentional and makes strategic sense from Apple's point of view. They're well aware that a majority of apps would work perfectly fine as web apps -- but that also removes Apple from the equation. Only allowing Safari on iOS and intentionally gimping it solves the problem. I mean, I can't even blame them. Can't lose out on…

I wish PWA advocates were more intellectually honest. They don't care about the web and what is good for end users i.e. more APIs = less privacy. They simply want to build apps without Apple's fee and controls.

Well, I wish Apple advocates would stop strawmanning and posting incorrect generalizing accusations.

I care deeply about privacy. That means I trust the browser sandbox a lot more than native apps. There's obviously a reason sites like Twitter and Reddit try to force their native apps on you as soon as you visit their web page on a phone -- it'll allow them to spy more on you.

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