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The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

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Re: The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

#311

Post by gruez »

jupp0r wrote: post #132
tharne wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The amount of pushback these measures got, when we were literally just trying to save lives and prevent disability through long covid absolutely staggers the mind and erodes my faith in humanity. Or you could reasonably conclude that the policies enacted during COVID are yet another example of how we prioritize the elderly over children in the United States, arguably because children don't vote and the elderly do.…

The 140k children who lost a parent or caregiver to COVID [1] would probably disagree with your statement. Losing your parents is also not great for emotional wellbeing or development. [1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/more-140000-us...

>Overall, the study shows that approximately 1 out of 500 children in the United States has experienced COVID-19-associated orphanhood or death of a grandparent caregiver.

What about the other 499 children who missed 2+ years of in-person classes?

Re: The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

#312

Post by r2_pilot »

sickofparadox wrote: post #252
r2_pilot wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are going to call bullshit on something, feel free to cite your source. However, regardless of what you think you're talking to, this source suggests that your claim of bullshit is bullshit. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761

This "scientific article" isn't worth the bits on the hard drive its written on. It uses simple propaganda techniques to manipulate CDC data to give the desired answer. Firstly it only measures up through 2020, even though well before the time of publishing more data was available, why is that? It is to do the number crunching as close to the bottom of the Covid lockdown curve for car accidents (more WFH/distance lea…

https://usafacts.org/data-projects/child-death

I don't have children so the statistics don't matter to me, but these casual armchair dismissals do a disservice to the institutions we try to hold to standards. Sorry that you (and apparently many others) don't feel that their work is adequate to meet your criteria.

Re: The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

#313

Post by giantg2 »

caddemon wrote: post #310
ghaff wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't work in a lot of cases though. It's the RTO/WFH struggle. If teachers decide they don't want to be in a classroom, sending your kid in isn't very practical. Or is it only parents who get a choice?

At least RTO and WFH companies can co-exist though, and there are hybrid models as well. With school parents are stuck with what their specific district wants to do, and the number of hours and days spent in school is extremely rigid. For the academic year that started in fall 2020, it's not inherently impractical that the two options could have co-existed for both teachers and parents. But obviously it was unrealist…

"They are quite literally encouraging people to send their kids in even while sick. A friend's son has mono right now and the HS is threatening to hold him back over absences"

Maybe complain to the state departments of education and health. Many states have laws on what constitutes an excused absence and procedures around communicable diseases. Many times the local people in power don't know or would rather do whatever they think is best until the state steps in.

Re: The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

#314

Post by caddemon »

op00to wrote: post #181
lotsofpulp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with sacrificing the elderly for the benefit of the kids. A few months of shutdown was reasonable, but shutting schools down for a couple years is too big of a price to pay. Also, my kids were in daycare the whole time outside of Mar to May 2020, and they were spreading all sorts of viruses just like they were before COVID. How the government chose to allow the most prolific spreaders to congregate…

My child's school was online-only instruction from March to June, and reopened in September 2020 for in-person instruction. They did not miss one day of instruction. No idea what you're talking about.

A lot of schools remained remote in fall 2020 - depended on the school, and it's not exactly easy to switch between districts. Also, the quality of instruction in spring 2020 was absolutely affected as teachers adapted to remote and everyone dealt with the general chaos. Again could vary by school, but I think saying no instruction was missed is naive. "Days in class" is a horrible metric for learning, and there absolutely were classrooms where quality of learning degraded.

It was a shitty situation all around, and I'm definitely not arguing that schools should have remained open that spring. But it's silly to pretend that education was not affected across the country by the switch to remote.

Re: The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

#315

Post by adwi »

bgribble wrote: post #108
throwitaway222 wrote: post #7

Where did they move? (FL?)

In my anecdotal experience, there is a sizable chunk of people who stayed within a couple of hours drive of the city but moved farther out to save money. Towns up the Hudson Valley, Westchester, "Greater Woodstock", Long Island, Conn/Mass/NJ. If the only reason you are paying all that rent money for that tiny apartment is so you can take the subway to work, and you can work from Yonkers over Zoom just as well, why no…

The food, the people, the theater, the music, the buildings, the parks, the museums, the rivers, the beach. The current that’s always pushing you out, which force you to grow or leave. Collectively, “the energy”.

If it’s only an expensive studio apartment that’s keeping one here, I agree, they should save the cash and make room for the rest of us.

Re: The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

#316

Post by tharne »

op00to wrote: post #168
tharne wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The amount of pushback these measures got, when we were literally just trying to save lives and prevent disability through long covid absolutely staggers the mind and erodes my faith in humanity. Or you could reasonably conclude that the policies enacted during COVID are yet another example of how we prioritize the elderly over children in the United States, arguably because children don't vote and the elderly do.…

> Was this the right thing to do? I don't believe there's a clear answer to that I'm not sure how you reconcile your claim that you don't believe there's a clear answer to whether it was wright with the emotion-laden and leading statement you made just before. Everyone suffered during the pandemic. There was no way to spare anyone, it was a traumatic experience for everyone. Having a dead grandmother and grandfather…

> I'm not sure how you reconcile your claim that you don't believe there's a clear answer to whether it was wright with the emotion-laden and leading statement you made just before.

The parent commenter stated that the way we handled COVID made them lose their faith in humanity. I was pointing out that there were a series of choices to make, none of them good, but just because someone wanted to make a different tradeoff does not ipso facto make them a bad or uncaring person.

Was I snarkier than I should have been, sure. That was immature of me.

Re: The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

#317

Post by red-iron-pine »

gruez wrote: post #311
jupp0r wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 140k children who lost a parent or caregiver to COVID [1] would probably disagree with your statement. Losing your parents is also not great for emotional wellbeing or development. [1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/more-140000-us...

>Overall, the study shows that approximately 1 out of 500 children in the United States has experienced COVID-19-associated orphanhood or death of a grandparent caregiver. What about the other 499 children who missed 2+ years of in-person classes?

they'll make it up. nothing is going to magically bring a dead parent back.

Re: The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

#318

Post by sickofparadox »

r2_pilot wrote: post #312
sickofparadox wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "scientific article" isn't worth the bits on the hard drive its written on. It uses simple propaganda techniques to manipulate CDC data to give the desired answer. Firstly it only measures up through 2020, even though well before the time of publishing more data was available, why is that? It is to do the number crunching as close to the bottom of the Covid lockdown curve for car accidents (more WFH/distance lea…

https://usafacts.org/data-projects/child-death I don't have children so the statistics don't matter to me, but these casual armchair dismissals do a disservice to the institutions we try to hold to standards. Sorry that you (and apparently many others) don't feel that their work is adequate to meet your criteria.

Linking another website using the same tricks really doesn't really dismiss my point, and referring to my criticisms of the definition-gaming and timeline chopping as "casual armchair dismissals" amounts to nothing more than name calling. I'm sorry that you have misplaced your morality when it comes to telling the truth.

Re: The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

#319

Post by mattzito »

steveBK123 wrote: post #255
mattzito wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I've lived here since 98, the biggest thing I've seen is the rise in shoplifting, that's definitely a dynamic that's different than it was in previous years, and that is no doubt driven by the ability to sell these goods easily on facebook and other places (it wasn't worth your time to shoplift hairbrushes because where would you sell them and for how much, but there's a guy who steals hairbrushes from my local D…

> violent crime, its going back down and is nowhere near what it was like even back in 2000 in the same neighborhood I live in now Curious though if you actually lived in that neighborhood your whole 25? years in NYC? I think personally my experience is that while city-wide crime might be similar to when I moved here nearly 20 years ago, I do not live in the same area. For example I had 2 mentors that started a decad…

Not exactly, but almost. Five years in and around midtown east, then 7 years in astoria, now 13 years in midtown east. Not the same apartment, obviously, but same enough that I pass by the same places that I was passing by back in 1998.

In my experience, the places that were sketchy back then in Manhattan are still sketchy today, but the radius of sketch is much smaller and the demarcation line much brighter.

To use your examples, I agree that bushwick today is grittier than BH in 2000, but my impression is that it compares similarly to, say, avenue C in 2000, where there were hipster bars and restaurants popping up, but it was still considered less safe than the area around washington square park. I don't live in bushwick, though, so I'm sure its an imperfect comparison.

Re: The changing face of post-pandemic New York City

#320

Post by r2_pilot »

sickofparadox wrote: post #318
r2_pilot wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://usafacts.org/data-projects/child-death I don't have children so the statistics don't matter to me, but these casual armchair dismissals do a disservice to the institutions we try to hold to standards. Sorry that you (and apparently many others) don't feel that their work is adequate to meet your criteria.

Linking another website using the same tricks really doesn't really dismiss my point, and referring to my criticisms of the definition-gaming and timeline chopping as "casual armchair dismissals" amounts to nothing more than name calling. I'm sorry that you have misplaced your morality when it comes to telling the truth.

I'm just a lost epistemologist seeking truth in whatever dirty alleyway I find myself in.
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