Live data from Hacker News

Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

9to5mac.com

311–320 of 510 posts

Re: Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

#311
post #286
post #271

Live by the sword, die by the sword I guess. Apple has been busy patenting obvious VR/AR features and I have no doubt we will see them attempting to aggressively exercise these in future years to shut down alternatives to Vision Pro in the future.

> I have no doubt we will see them attempting to aggressively exercise these in future years to shut down alternatives to Vision Pro in the future. Do you have examples where apple has aggressively used patents offensively like this?

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc

> March 2010 Apple vs HTC:

Apple's suit alleged 20 separate patent infringements relating to the iPhone's user interface, underlying architecture and hardware. Steve Jobs exclaimed "We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it" The ITC rejected all but one of Apple's claims

> July 2008 Apple Inc. vs Psystar Corporation

Apple Inc. filed suit against Psystar Corporation alleging Psystar sold Intel-based systems with Mac OS X pre-installed and that, in so doing, violated Apple's copyright and trademark rights and the software licensing terms of Apple's shrink wrap license.

>2019, Apple v. Corellium

Apple sued security start-up Corellium for creating the first virtual iPhone-simulating software. The product was created with the intent of helping users research security issues in iOS. Apple's lawsuit argued that Corellium's product would be dangerous in the wrong hands as it would let hackers learn exploits easier, as well as claiming that Corellium was selling their product indiscriminately, even to potential competitors of Apple.

> Apple v. Samsung: Android phones and tablets

By August 2011, Apple and Samsung were engaged in 19 ongoing lawsuits in 12 courts in nine countries on four continents; by October, the fight expanded to 10 countries.

Re: Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

#312
post #22

Patents in question: https://patents.google.com/patent/US10912502B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US10945648B2/en They look identical to me btw? both files on 2020-02 and have title of "User-worn device for noninvasively measuring a physiological parameter of a user". From summary: > light source comprises LEDs and super-luminescent LEDs. The light source emits light at at least wavelengths of about 1610 nm, a…

The statement of a storage device is part of a larger claim that decribes a different embodiment of the invention that they also want to protect. If it was an independent claim it would almost certainly be invalid, but as part of a specific claim or as a dependent claim it could be valid when considering the entire embodiment described by the claim(s).

Re: Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

#313
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but on the other hand as someone with a pretty recent Apple Watch on my wrist I am very happy whenever Apple suffers a loss and loses money.

Apple products are so much better than the competition that even their haters buy them.

I hate what Apple has become, but they make the best laptops, so I buy them.

Re: Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some narrow cases I see the value in patents motivating financial investment in original research. But most of the time this does not apply. Optical pulse oximeters are an obvious incremental thing, and with zero knowledge of the space I don’t think it’s crazy to believe these would have come into existence on the same time frame with or without the existence of patents. Virtually everything humans create or “disc…

“We’re all just memetic LLMs, remixing stuff with mildly differing levels of variance.” Einstein upended every other human beings notion of space and time. Copernicus also proposed something preposterous for his time. Would you say they just remixed stuff with mild variance?

Copernicus has only revived a theory first proposed millennia before him (in Ancient Greece), but initially rejected for insufficient evidence. Even for Copernicus, his theory was based more on faith than on evidence, because it became possible to measure the stellar parallaxes only much later.

When Einstein published his theory of Special Relativity, it did not contain any fact or formula that had not already existed previously in the works of Lorentz, Poincaré and many others. It was just a new and original point of view about which is the meaning of those known relationships (i.e. that it is the speed of light which is constant in all reference systems, while other quantities are variable, instead of making other choices about which quantities are constant and which are variable).

His contribution is actually very similar with that of Copernicus, who also did not provide any new fact or relationship, but just a new choice about which position should be considered constant, Sun's or Earth's. Both changes were very small compared with the existing knowledge, but they were very important for enabling further progress.

Every progress is really incremental and it adds very little over the existing body of knowledge, even if the addition is essential for any further progress and for improving the practical applications.

Re: Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

#315
post #294
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though that was a design patent, they also got a normal patent for the pythagorean formula (they didn’t invent pinch zoom, so they patented computing the distance between two fingers from two x,y coordinates).

FYI: Apple’s pinch to zoom lets you rotate and drag not just zoom. This kind of subtle differences matter quite a bit from a UI perspective. You could have a punch to zoom system where a pinching motion always resulted in fixed changes to zoom levels. You could describe both implementations as “pint to zoom” but one is a lot more user friendly than the other.

Didn't the Microsoft surface table project that predated apple multitouch already show rotation?

Re: Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

#316
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no doubt we will see them attempting to aggressively exercise these in future years to shut down alternatives to Vision Pro in the future. Do you have examples where apple has aggressively used patents offensively like this?

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc > March 2010 Apple vs HTC: Apple's suit alleged 20 separate patent infringements relating to the iPhone's user interface, underlying architecture and hardware. Steve Jobs exclaimed "We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it" The ITC rejected all but one of Apple's claims > July 2008 Apple Inc. vs Psysta…

So the most recent one involving patents is at least 12 years old, the one with Corelium is about copyright of their OS and not patents.

So you proved the point that since Jobs tome, they have not use their patents offensively.

Re: Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

#317

All these intellectual property lawsuits look like an economic loss overall. The laws don’t work as intended if they aimed to encourage innovation

By the same token, all these patents these megacorps apply for are also an economic loss. They're part of the problem.

Re: Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

#318
Apparently third-party resellers can still sell Apple Watches that have already been imported to the US (but Apple cannot import anymore, nor can it sell any first-party).

I wonder if Apple has been importing like crazy, and selling to big retailers like Amazon and Walmart. That way customers can continue to purchase (albeit not from Apple) for the next several months. Then Apple can perhaps release a new version in May, using different technology that either doesn't infringe, or at least would require a new trial to establish infringement.

If this is the case, I think Apple could even continue to have AW showcases in their stores, where people could try them on, see how the features work, and see which size fits best. After all, this wouldn't violate the ban on importation (assuming the store models were already in the US), nor would it violate the ban on first-party sales (since Apple wouldn't be selling the store models).

Re: Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right, but it sure looks like masimo's "innovation" is filing the patent paperwork for the general concept of how pulse oximeters have always worked, not anything new they invented. filing patents for something you didn't invent is not the law working as intended.

If that was the case Apple would have overturned this patent on the basis of prior art. I'm inclined to trust ITC on this one more than a random dude from the internet, even though he is not a toad.

Or, the system itself has become just stupid

Re: Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 sales in the US this week

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some narrow cases I see the value in patents motivating financial investment in original research. But most of the time this does not apply. Optical pulse oximeters are an obvious incremental thing, and with zero knowledge of the space I don’t think it’s crazy to believe these would have come into existence on the same time frame with or without the existence of patents. Virtually everything humans create or “disc…

“We’re all just memetic LLMs, remixing stuff with mildly differing levels of variance.” Einstein upended every other human beings notion of space and time. Copernicus also proposed something preposterous for his time. Would you say they just remixed stuff with mild variance?

I don't think we are LLMs, but was it a coincidence something like ricci calculus had just been developed?
Post reply on HN