Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation • Hacker News Board

Re: Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation

#311

Post by goodbyesf » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 4:08 PM UTC

radicalbyte wrote: post #261

anadalakra wrote: post #119

As a non-native English speaker, the "randomness" of English pronunciation has been a source of frustration for me for many years. I realized there are two types of issues: 1. Some sounds in English don't exist in other languages and you have to learn them "from scratch". For example the "flap T" in butter. Or the particular American "r" (constrast it to the Spanish rolled r for instance). 2. Certain sounds I DID kno…

> word like "color" has two "o" letters but neither of them makes an "ou" sound That it why we spell it as "colour" in English. Americans removed the "u" from their dialect which makes a needlessly complicated language even more so. Learning Dutch really opened my eyes as to how terrible English is as a written language. The funny thing is that it's mirrored in our law - English law is all about case law and presiden…

> That it why we spell it as "colour" in English.

No. That was due to french influence. Not to be more phonetic.

> Americans removed the "u" from their dialect which makes a needlessly complicated language even more so.

Webster removed it to make it more phonetic. Do you pronounce color the same way as flour? Of course not. Color, harbor, favor, etc is more phonetically accurate than colour, harbour, favour, etc.

> The funny thing is that it's mirrored in our law - English law is all about case law and president.

Precedent.

Re: Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation

#312

Post by deadbeeves » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

lottin wrote: post #310

deadbeeves wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Quid" is longer. >You can't copy something you're not aware of. If that was the case, babies would not be able to learn how to speak.

Babies haven't already acquired another language, when they're learning to speak, and so there's no interference. That's not the case when someone learns a second language later in life. > "Quid" is longer. Feel free to post a voice recording, so we can check.

Interference doesn't matter if all you're doing is copying what people do with their mouths. You might have more or less trouble performing the movement at the mechanical level (for example a lot of people have trouble doing the French R) or listening for the precise positions of the tongue etc., but just copying what you can hear is trivial.

>Feel free to post a voice recording, so we can check.

Nah. I have no interest in convincing you; honestly accepting to be tested at all is probably more than I should have done. I'm merely relaying a personal experience for your edification. If you can't accept it for what it is then continue as you were.

Re: Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation

#313

Post by scyzoryk_xyz » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

yhager wrote: post #190

anadalakra wrote: post #119

As a non-native English speaker, the "randomness" of English pronunciation has been a source of frustration for me for many years. I realized there are two types of issues: 1. Some sounds in English don't exist in other languages and you have to learn them "from scratch". For example the "flap T" in butter. Or the particular American "r" (constrast it to the Spanish rolled r for instance). 2. Certain sounds I DID kno…

There is no such thing as "English pronunciation". English does not have a regulatory body like Spanish or German have. There are many English dialects, and sounds (and meanings) vary, A LOT. It's up to you whether you want to try and assimilate the local dialect of where you live right now, or you want to simply understand and be understood. There are many non-native speakers who are extremely easy to understand, ev…

Practice and willingness to fail and clown around is key. As an english teacher I've always liked to bring up cross-lingual interference - you're always going to accidentally bring in sounds from your own language into the one you're learning.

I'm no linguist, but English has also drawn a lot from other neighboring languages. Understanding a bit of French, Dutch or German helps a lot with understanding which English words are pronounced in which way. It's not random is what I mean.

I once knew a EU parlament translator and linguist with 6+ languages under his belt. When he visited us in Poland he would not shut up - he tried reading every sign, every word, kept asking how it's pronounced. Just continuously played with language, like a software developer does with code. When he was leaving after a two day stay he had a lot of Polish quite well figured out, it was really impressive. But he was just really willing to fail over and over and over in all social interactions.

Re: Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation

#314

Post by narag » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:12 PM UTC

MeImCounting wrote: post #27

narag wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an English name. It's the name of a spanish river. Wad is river in Arabic. They pronounce it correctly. It's common that foreign words are adopted and adapted to the host language, but sometimes, specially if they're names, the original pronounciation lingers.

I did not know it was a river in Spain, coming from the US I had always assumed it was some catholic religious phrase or a mispronunciation of a native word. It makes me cringe to imagine people saying "GWAD-uh-LOOP" but I guess its not even that bad compared to many mispronunciations

It's a river, a town, a religious icon, a name in Spain and then, when conquistadores from the area went to Mexico, they named another town, another icon... Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe is the patron saint of Mexico, so it's a big thing there.

That pronunciation is not so bad. Source: I'm a native Spanish speaker and dated a Guadalupe for years :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalupe_(name)

Re: Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation

#315

Post by lottin » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

deadbeeves wrote: post #312

lottin wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Babies haven't already acquired another language, when they're learning to speak, and so there's no interference. That's not the case when someone learns a second language later in life. > "Quid" is longer. Feel free to post a voice recording, so we can check.

Interference doesn't matter if all you're doing is copying what people do with their mouths. You might have more or less trouble performing the movement at the mechanical level (for example a lot of people have trouble doing the French R) or listening for the precise positions of the tongue etc., but just copying what you can hear is trivial. >Feel free to post a voice recording, so we can check. Nah. I have no inter…

Interference absolutely does matter. Interference manifests itself in the form of a foreign accent, which most people have when they speak a second language. You're making an extraordinary claim, namely that you're able to speak a second language without a foreign accent. I find your claim extremely unlikely to be true, especially since you provide no evidence and you've shown that you know very little about language acquisition.

Re: Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation

#316

Post by degrews » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 7:07 PM UTC

yhager wrote: post #190

anadalakra wrote: post #119

As a non-native English speaker, the "randomness" of English pronunciation has been a source of frustration for me for many years. I realized there are two types of issues: 1. Some sounds in English don't exist in other languages and you have to learn them "from scratch". For example the "flap T" in butter. Or the particular American "r" (constrast it to the Spanish rolled r for instance). 2. Certain sounds I DID kno…

There is no such thing as "English pronunciation". English does not have a regulatory body like Spanish or German have. There are many English dialects, and sounds (and meanings) vary, A LOT. It's up to you whether you want to try and assimilate the local dialect of where you live right now, or you want to simply understand and be understood. There are many non-native speakers who are extremely easy to understand, ev…

> There is no such thing as "English pronunciation". English does not have a regulatory body like Spanish or German have.

Oh come on. The fact that there is no regulatory body doesn't mean we can't meaningfully talk about "English pronunciation" in a general way. And Spanish and German have different dialects , accents and pronunciations too.

> The English spelling is guided by meaning, not by sound

How is the spelling guided by meaning?

Re: Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation

#317

Post by deadbeeves » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 7:38 PM UTC

lottin wrote: post #315

deadbeeves wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interference doesn't matter if all you're doing is copying what people do with their mouths. You might have more or less trouble performing the movement at the mechanical level (for example a lot of people have trouble doing the French R) or listening for the precise positions of the tongue etc., but just copying what you can hear is trivial. >Feel free to post a voice recording, so we can check. Nah. I have no inter…

Interference absolutely does matter. Interference manifests itself in the form of a foreign accent, which most people have when they speak a second language. You're making an extraordinary claim, namely that you're able to speak a second language without a foreign accent. I find your claim extremely unlikely to be true, especially since you provide no evidence and you've shown that you know very little about language…

"With correct pronunciation" and "without an accent" are not equivalent qualifiers. There's no such thing as the null accent. Obviously I will have an accent relative to any speaker, since I don't live in an English-speaking community and so I'm not copying the exact pronunciation of any single community, but rather approximately averaging the pronunciations of all the speakers I hear.

Like I said, I have no interest in convincing you. If you can't accept what I say for what it is, continue as you were.

Re: Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation

#318

Post by MeImCounting » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 7:38 PM UTC

sundarurfriend wrote: post #281

MeImCounting wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not know it was a river in Spain, coming from the US I had always assumed it was some catholic religious phrase or a mispronunciation of a native word. It makes me cringe to imagine people saying "GWAD-uh-LOOP" but I guess its not even that bad compared to many mispronunciations

> It makes me cringe to imagine people saying "GWAD-uh-LOOP" What's the better/closer-to-original pronunciation?

I have always heard "GWAD-uh-LOOP-eh" or "GWAD-uh-LOOP-ay" around where I live but native spanish speakers elsewhere on this thread have said that "GWAD-uh-LOOP" is not that bad of a pronunciation so I imagine it is a highly regional thing.

Re: Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation

#319

Post by chris_j » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 7:56 PM UTC

inanutshellus wrote: post #47

narag wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an English name. It's the name of a spanish river. Wad is river in Arabic. They pronounce it correctly. It's common that foreign words are adopted and adapted to the host language, but sometimes, specially if they're names, the original pronounciation lingers.

aaand that reminds me of "Torpenhow Hill". > When the Saxons arrived and asked the Welsh the name of that hill, the Welsh said “pen” which means "hill" in Welsh. So the Saxons used their word for hill, “tor,” and called it Torpen (hill hill). > > Then the Norse arrived and the same process added the their world for hill “Haugr”. So now it was Torpen Haugr (Hill Hill Hill). > > Later, the English called it Torpenhow H…

My favourite example of this sort of redundancy is the fact that there are numerous rivers in England called the River Avon. Avon is believed to come from the Proto-Brythonic word "aβon" [0], meaning "river".

[0] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Brythoni...

Re: Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation

#320

Post by filoleg » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 9:18 PM UTC

yhager wrote: post #216

bongobingo1 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_language_regulators https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Academies_of_th... I had no idea this would exist. I guess it makes sense that people would try to do something like this, but also, to my English addled brain, not much sense to expend the effort.

Oh, it's a huge effort! These bodies meet and discuss what the proper spelling of words should be, or they make up new words, and then they publish those guidelines for journalists, authors, and anyone who wants to speak "properly" to follow. It gives the language a good balance between spelling and pronouncing - that's why you can pronounce most words in German and Spanish exactly how they are written (I think there…

I don’t think that the existence of those bodies is the reason for being able to pronounce most words in German and Spanish exactly how they are written.

Afaik there is no such regulatory body for Russian language, and yet as long as you know the alphabet, you should be able to pronounce almost every single word correctly (even if you have never seen or heard it before).

There are a few exceptions, but I cannot even recall them right now, aside from super common ones that make natural sense. Example: “что” aka “chto”, with “ch” being pronounced more like “sh” (which would naturally end up happening if you try pronouncing it as written aka “chto” a few times).