311–320 of 565 posts
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Is it common to take code written for one employer and reuse it for another?
Why anyone would run the legal risk of stealing IP from their old employer, to benefit not themselves, but to benefit their new employer... is beyond me.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except China has required technology transfer and has been actively committing state sponsored industrial espionage for decades. Surely this isn’t news? I’m down with China as a competitor, but we have a strong division between state and industry and China does not. I don’t think a unipolar world is a good idea, and I’m glad for a resurgent China. But it’s absurd to put on blinders and believe forced technology trans…
What you’re doing is completely denouncing BYD’s accomplishments by saying they must have stolen the technology to get to where they are today. That’s the exact argument you will use to convince yourself of any of China’s successes stories. They can’t possibly innovate because they’re Chinese and not western. Therefore, they must have stolen the tech. This is how Raegan convinced the public in 1980s.
China has enormous success stories that don’t depend on pilfering or extorting, and a rich history for thousands of years. In fact I think the Chinese governments behavior in this respect is below the divinity of Chinese people and Chinese culture. This plays out in the recent domestic behavior of the Chinese government towards its own people. I even said I welcome a multipolar world with a resurgent china.
But if you think forced technology transfer and industrial espionage by the Chinese state to benefit the Chinese states industrial interests - which have become pervasive in China under Xi with most major Chinese ventures being forced to take state funding and control - you are deluded, or are trying to delude. I say this with all the force of someone who has experienced the fact of what’s happening directly - you can throw racism or nationalism around all you want, but there’s a cold reality that exists independent of such concepts and I - and many others in technology - have experienced it first hand. It’s calculating, cold, and very much real - and race and nationalism have very little to do with it. It’s political and it’s absolutely real.
Btw, you can’t sit in a BYD and not see the technology transfers and the espionage spoils. China could be successful on its own merit, but not with the Chinese communist party controlling industry and civil society. I just hope some day Chinese people will be free to be that competitor on equal footing with the world. What happens in China today is a disgrace to Chinese everywhere, who are some of the most brilliant and hard working people out there. Until that day I welcome them to work with me here, and we can make great things together.
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“When governments permit counterfeiting or copying of American products, it is stealing our future, and it is no longer free trade.” - US President Donald Trump, commenting on China. Actually, the above quote is not Trump and not on China. It's Ronald Raegan on Japan in 1985. When a new economic threat rises, the US will use the same playbook- demonizing in media, accusations, turn the public against said country, ba…
Except China has required technology transfer and has been actively committing state sponsored industrial espionage for decades. Surely this isn’t news? I’m down with China as a competitor, but we have a strong division between state and industry and China does not. I don’t think a unipolar world is a good idea, and I’m glad for a resurgent China. But it’s absurd to put on blinders and believe forced technology trans…
ChatGPT is the most recent example.
"Study hard and keep the rewards" is basically a dead concept.
The separation between state and corporation is a red herring. It's trivially easy for Bill Gates to reveal secrets to Bill Clinton behind closed doors.
Corporations are absolutely abmysal at keeping secrets. They are open-by-default and cannot legally stay in business with the level of security required to keep knowledge from leaking.
Why is this even a conversation....
When I was 24, I was pretty much exactly this person. "Building a spreadsheet engine that runs in a browser. Sounds like so much fun!" And then I'd slog away at it for a month and get something working.
Now though, with age, I know I can't chug away coffee working late into the night. My back hurts when I have to sit too long. My wrists aren't being too kind to me these days either.
Now if someone asked me to build Excel I'd first laugh in their face. And if I don't see them smiling, I'd ask if they can afford any of these A,B,C...Z COTS products that are doing this that we can just buy. And if none of those work out, I'd look for how I can take something like ethercalc and repurpose it for our use case.
Looks like the older I get, rather than writing code, I seem to be getting more adept at how not to write it.
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Don't bother. These whataboutism accounts pop up all the time on stories like this.
And you use the “whataboutism” as your main argument for whenever someone isn’t anti-china. The world runs on reciprocity. Whataboutism is built into assumptions. It’s called fairness and it’s an intrinsic human trait.
I’d also note while we are on the topic of anti-China, and you’ve lobbed anti Chinese out there - I’ll wager almost (almost!) everyone here, myself especially, isn’t anti anything about China or Chinese people. But that doesn’t mean we are pro the communist party’s policies - and frankly so are very few Chinese. The fact that forced tech transfer and industrial espionage is embarrassing to the Chinese government and sullies all success is no one’s fault but the Chinese governments, and that’s where it begins and ends.
I’m no defender of the US government either, but that’s not even the topic here. I’ll be happy to engage on that topic in the relevant threads. That’s, after all, fair.
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Whataboutism is shield of hypocrites. Ignore all atrocities and human rights abuse we are doing, only wrongs of country X are relevant.
US media: China is wrong to use its military power to bully countries. Poster: But the US does it too and has done it for far longer and more often. Average HN reply: Omg, whataboutism.
The lesson of what you build for a company as something that may be thrown away is a good one.
However, I believe the only way to actually have a sacred masterpiece is to own the company and make the company's mission to build that sacred masterpiece. For example, there are definitely business opportunity for converting excel sheets to online apps that are collaborative.
The core problem is alignment between the tech investment and the company's goal.
Best quote: "People working for Didi apply for intern jobs at Uber China and then exfiltrate our data. We can’t let them see the formulas or they’ll just copy what we do!” This is so true. People in the US just don't understand the level of economic and industrial espionage that happens in China on a daily basis. I was responding to an unrelated breach at an unnamed tech company back in mid-2000s time frame and had a…
> People in the US just don't understand the level of economic and industrial espionage that happens in China on a daily basis. Back in my day this was called "competition" and worked for the consumer, not against them. I find the espionage factor to be theatrical hogwash trotted out by the corporate types. We americans love competition, right? Stfu and compete.
Best quote: "People working for Didi apply for intern jobs at Uber China and then exfiltrate our data. We can’t let them see the formulas or they’ll just copy what we do!” This is so true. People in the US just don't understand the level of economic and industrial espionage that happens in China on a daily basis. I was responding to an unrelated breach at an unnamed tech company back in mid-2000s time frame and had a…
I've watched key, core engineers and technical leaders work for US and European companies, develop their next generation products, then turn around and design and develop essentially the exact same thing for the Chinese market. They then build a company, in China, that makes essentially the same product, but for the Chinese Market, and with Chinese investors, etc.
Examples: Thoratec/Abbot Heartmate III & CH Biomedical
Auris/Verb/J&J Robotic & Digital Solutions & Renovo Surgical
The ironic thing, is that some of these companies after success in China are working to sell and be competitive in the US and Europe.
It's not even secret or under the table anymore, it's overt and largely accepted as the way it is in our industry. A brave new world.
The other factor, is that it is very very difficult for a foreign company to do business and protect their assets in China, so often the wise companies don't even try. They often just license their stuff for the Chinese market to a Chinese company. That way they at least have a chance of not having it all just stolen.