Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

bqprime.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 399 posts

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#311

Post by whizzter »

ramraj07 wrote: post #80
whizzter wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swish has 3 ways: 1: You follow a link on your phone that opens the app, you're prompted with the transaction sum and then sign with a code on the phone and done. 2: You scan a QR code (from sign or screen), opens a prompt in app for the sum, sign and done 3: Person-to-person, you enter their phone number(often from the phone book), amount and message, sign and done. The signing is done via the standard app that's al…

Just remember that all else being equal, UPI is still a far more impressive system. Here’s the reasons: 1. A 100x higher volume on a normal day. 2. A highly effective and equitable system that somehow managed to succeed in one of the most corrupt and beauracratic nations. 3. The majority of its users can barely read, if at all. Not to mention all the languages involved. UPI is impressive because it actually made a di…

Well volume wasn't the question here (but yes, it's hard to beat anything Chinese or Indian w/o being global). As for literacy most illiterates should be able to use Swish.

Nr 2 though is something that I think might be a reverse though, looking globally mobile payments seems to have been a hit in markets with less well functioning traditional money and credit/debit card markets.

In Sweden cards's (most often debit) with tap-to-pay still rules for most b2c cases like established restaurants, stores and anything with slightly higher value. Swish was mostly started out to facilitate non-commercial person-to-person cases but has now displaced most lower value cash usage (person to person, small vendors, temporary venues).

I frankly don't even know if I have physical money in my wallet anymore since.. well I've not used physical money in a couple of years now iirc.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#312

Post by jimkleiber »

Brajeshwar wrote: post #193

I’ve been using UPI since its very early days when it used to fail quite often. UPI is still one of the best things to happen in the financial scene in India. However, these days, personally, I’m trying to reduce it to either known people, or established institutions. I wish there is another layer of tokenization when one pays via UPI, like how Apple Pay does. I wish that the transaction is obfuscated and the phone n…

I'm not sure if it's possible with UPI but I know in Kenya many people will get a second, cheaper phone to use for m-pesa (mobile money), I think partially so the battery doesn't die on it but it could also reduce the types of calls you're talking about, or at least make it obvious that someone is calling your mobile money number.

Is that possible with UPI? Or even a dual sim? I'm not sure if the account is tied to the person or the number.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#313

Post by wtmt »

achow wrote: post #307
tecoholic wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I withheld using UPI through the pandemic and a long while after that because of the no. of fraud cases I kept reading about and my reservations about UPI’s origins. But gave in and got in after moving to a new city and getting stuck in multiple places for the want of 5/10 rupees in change that somehow nobody seemed to had. I mostly just use it my grocery store and vegetable store or in those no-change situations. Ye…

If you have 'custom' UPI ID (and not @bank) then UPI payment is not an issue

No, a custom UPI ID won’t save you from your phone number being shared with merchants. [1] UPI payments also leak the person’s full legal name on transactions. Whether this is useful in merchant payments (not personal payments to known people) is highly doubtful.

[1]: https://scroll.in/article/1045536/are-your-upi-payments-farm...

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#314

Post by wtmt »

sudshekhar wrote: post #210
Brajeshwar wrote: post #193

I’ve been using UPI since its very early days when it used to fail quite often. UPI is still one of the best things to happen in the financial scene in India. However, these days, personally, I’m trying to reduce it to either known people, or established institutions. I wish there is another layer of tokenization when one pays via UPI, like how Apple Pay does. I wish that the transaction is obfuscated and the phone n…

You can create an alphanumeric UPI handle on most UPI applications. This will hide your phone number. Eg: My UPI id is sudshekhar.cheq@trans. Most other UPI apps allow you to create such handles AFAIK. Nowadays, you can also keep your bank details private by using UPI with a wallet instead of savings account.

Nope. An alphanumeric UPI handle won’t hide your phone number [1]

UPI payments also ~~leak~~ share the person’s full legal name on transactions…and the phone number.

[1]: https://scroll.in/article/1045536/are-your-upi-payments-farm...

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#315

Post by bitwidget »

jimkleiber wrote: post #312
Brajeshwar wrote: post #193

I’ve been using UPI since its very early days when it used to fail quite often. UPI is still one of the best things to happen in the financial scene in India. However, these days, personally, I’m trying to reduce it to either known people, or established institutions. I wish there is another layer of tokenization when one pays via UPI, like how Apple Pay does. I wish that the transaction is obfuscated and the phone n…

I'm not sure if it's possible with UPI but I know in Kenya many people will get a second, cheaper phone to use for m-pesa (mobile money), I think partially so the battery doesn't die on it but it could also reduce the types of calls you're talking about, or at least make it obvious that someone is calling your mobile money number. Is that possible with UPI? Or even a dual sim? I'm not sure if the account is tied to t…

I think the issue is that Bank Accounts also need phone numbers linked to them and it seemed like only one phone number could be tied to an account. Having a secondary phone number used to combat spam also being the sole number tied to a Bank account could be bad. I could be wrong about the single phone number for an account, but that was what I experienced recently.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#316

Post by wtmt »

crop_rotation wrote: post #283
vinay_ys wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to give phone numbers and usually the cashier will enter their own fake phone number to let the system proceed further. Some shops like decathlon tried to force us to install their app, create an account and then scan and pay through that – at the cashier counter. I just left the entire shopping cart there and walked out without purchasing. Such crazy things do happen but those companies will learn the lesso…

I do the same but in this case I had already made the payment and they refused to give me an invoice without a contact number, and I didn't have any interest in a confrontation. If I had not made a payment I would have simply walked out.

Next time, tell them that the Union Minister of State for Electronics and IT has said that people shouldn’t give their phone numbers at retailers if there’s no justifiable reason. [1]

If they refuse to give an invoice, tell them you’ll report them for GST evasion. [2]

[1]: https://www.onmanorama.com/news/india/2023/02/13/rajeev-chan...

[2]: https://theprint.in/economy/govt-launches-gst-reward-scheme-...

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#317

Post by wtmt »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #293
Brajeshwar wrote: post #193

I’ve been using UPI since its very early days when it used to fail quite often. UPI is still one of the best things to happen in the financial scene in India. However, these days, personally, I’m trying to reduce it to either known people, or established institutions. I wish there is another layer of tokenization when one pays via UPI, like how Apple Pay does. I wish that the transaction is obfuscated and the phone n…

Damn. UPI shares your phone number? Instant PLONK. But I have been hearing raves about how great it is, from my Indian friends.

I’ll avoid repeating my previous comment [1], which has details on this. Unlike the mistaken belief of several people on this post, UPI does share the phone number even if a person uses an alphanumeric UPI ID instead of the initial or common phonenumber@provider address.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37371646

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#318

Post by wtmt »

sameerds wrote: post #303
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn. UPI shares your phone number? Instant PLONK. But I have been hearing raves about how great it is, from my Indian friends.

Not the protocol itself. Your ID is an arbitrary alphanumeric string that you register with a provider. But most people just use their phone number.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37371646

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#319

Post by wtmt »

vinay_ys wrote: post #182
davelondon wrote: post #125

I was in India earlier this year, and found there was no way (and I spent hours trying) for a foreigner to get access to the UPI system. This meant: 1) There were some cashless fast food outlets that I couldn't eat at 2) There was no way for me to book an intercity bus ticket I eventually managed to get a bus ticket by sweet-talking someone in a shop to use their personal UPI account in exchange for cash. I fear ther…

There are two ways for a foreigners to use UPI. 1. If you are from one of G20 countries (for now, will expand to other countries), you can get a prepaid UPI digital wallet at the airport where you land. Just go to the money exchange counters and enquire about this. Airport information desk should help you as well. You don't need an India phone number or India bank account. You can load money into this prepaid wallet…

> This entire process of opening an NRO account can be done at a bank branch physically or online via your mobile phone.

Online method is not possible since banks and other providers insist on providing Aadhaar number and completing OTP authentication for that mode. Aadhaar is a number given for residents, i.e., anyone who has legally resides in the country for more than 182 days. So a foreigner landing in the country isn’t going to be eligible for it until six months have passed.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#320

Post by saurik »

me551ah wrote: post #111

The major difference between UPI payments and Credit Cards is that there is no 'surcharge'. This is what makes it very viable for small merchants to accept payments of minimal amounts.

This also massively changes the incentive structures as it becomes yet another "you are the product" service :(.

https://scroll.in/article/1045536/are-your-upi-payments-farm...

(note: these paragraphs are not juxtaposed)

> “All these parties get a slice of the transaction data,” Lakhsmanan said. “This is built into the UPI system, which works on the model of ‘data maximisation’ – collecting and sharing as much data as possible.”

> The amount of data shared on the digital spending habits of consumers is significantly more in UPI as compared to traditional forms of digital transactions. “In a card payment system, such as credit cards, there are fewer parties,” Lakshmanan explained. “Further, the data stored is not identifiable, since it stores credit card numbers, that too in a redacted fashion.”

> But since this is not happening, companies may have to resort to other ways to make money. Said Jonnalagadda, “The lack of merchant discount rate [charges for processing debit and credit card payments] is a disincentive to all middle parties in the transaction – banks and apps, so they are forced to cope by upselling other services or collecting data and looking for data monetisation opportunities.”

Post reply on HN