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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

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Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#311

Post by gruez »

qup wrote: post #259
umvi wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it rent seeking/overreach? I make a video game and charge $50 for it. Later I make a DLC and charge $25 for it. Is your claim that if I keep them as separate purchasable downloads, I'm not rent seeking? But if instead combine the game and dlc into a single executable (to simplify build and distribution) and put the dlc behind a software lock, somehow that is now rent seeking/overreach and I deserve to have hackers…

Rent keeps getting paid. It's not a one-time purchase of $25.

What about games with monthly membership fees like world of warcraft?

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#312

Post by kbos87 »

alistairSH wrote: post #258
johnl1479 wrote: post #7

I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.

It's relatively clear to me... Features cost money, so I should pay for them. Wether that's via an option package (traditional) at order time OR via a software update (Tesla) after purchase doesn't matter. BUT! As long as that feature doesn't have recurring costs to the manufacturer (heated seats), it should be a one-time fee, and transfer with ownership. Something like self-driving, where there might be an active in…

Ongoing costs aside, it’s important to also recognize that there may have been massive up-front costs to develop something like self-driving before it generates revenue, which the manufacturer should have the right to recoup/monetize. If they choose to do that through a subscription, that feels like it’s within their right.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#313

Post by mcbuilder »

zapdrive wrote: post #282
jcuenod wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I also rotate license plates and repaint my car twice a year.

I also change my facial hair style 4 times a year. Will start getting plastic surgery twice a year starting next year.

I just inked an adversarial CV tattoo onto my face, worked great until that image leaked into the training data.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#314

Post by gumby »

coolspot wrote: post #248
ddalex wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you could anonymize your location on Tesla's servers I already anonymise my location on Tesla's servers by simply not owning a Tesla

Your car is filmed and recognized by other teslas.

This is a plausible attack vector, parallel to the profiles Facebook, Linkedin et al maintain for people who don't have accounts.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#315

Post by gruez »

LocalH wrote: post #271
umvi wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it rent seeking/overreach? I make a video game and charge $50 for it. Later I make a DLC and charge $25 for it. Is your claim that if I keep them as separate purchasable downloads, I'm not rent seeking? But if instead combine the game and dlc into a single executable (to simplify build and distribution) and put the dlc behind a software lock, somehow that is now rent seeking/overreach and I deserve to have hackers…

Even though that is not exactly the issue I refer to, I still say yes, that is my claim, from a moral perspective. If the content is on the disc or shipped as part of the files of the base game, then it should be accessible without additional purchase. Otherwise, you're undercharging for the original deliverable, and overcharging for the actual "downloadable content". Imagine this taken to the logical extreme. I sell…

> Even though that is not exactly the issue I refer to, I still say yes, that is my claim, from a moral perspective.

And what's the "moral perspective" in question? Is it just "whatever benefits the consumer"?

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#316

Post by lockhouse »

LocalH wrote: post #255
lockhouse wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there though? Even on game consoles, the “DLC” is often a couple meg download because the actual content is already built into the game. You could turn Windows NT 3.51 Workstation into Server by just changing a registry key! https://www.landley.net/history/mirror/ms/differences_nt.htm...

This is less true nowadays than it used to be, some games have quite a substantial amount of DLC of which no part is shipped with the base game. The Rock Band series comes to mind there, for one.

I see it all the time with RPGs still.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#317

Post by nordsieck »

rebolek wrote: post #306
theluketaylor wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t mind hardware shipping locked and being an optional fee to unlock. I have paid for the rear heated seats in my model 3. What I’m vehemently opposed to is ongoing fees for things that don’t have ongoing costs. BMW wants to charge monthly for seat heaters or carplay, but those things are not a service and don’t have ongoing costs for BMW to provide. If anything creating an ongoing software lock creates an avail…

I don't understand the mental gymnastic here. They built car with heated seats. You paid for car with heated seats that are technically fully functional but you can't use them until you pay even more. No, doesn't make sense to me.

> I don't understand the mental gymnastic here. They built car with heated seats. You paid for car with heated seats that are technically fully functional but you can't use them until you pay even more. No, doesn't make sense to me.

That's because you don't understand.

The customer didn't pay for a car with heated seats. The manufacturer included them anyway, but disabled them in software.

Presumably, a consumer could go to the dealership and pay for heated seats as an aftermarket add-on. Or they could pay to enable heated seats (software unlock) on a month-to-month basis.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#318

Post by yardie »

ggreer wrote: post #287
yardie wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As are the footwell lights, fog lights, and premium audio. Heated front/rear seats have been standard equipment since 2020 I believe.

That's not true. The fog lights and premium audio both require hardware retrofits.

From what I understand the foglight is there but disabled from computer. The aftermarket lights bypass this lock completely by tapping into the main light cluster harness.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#319

Post by wongarsu »

zapdrive wrote: post #282
jcuenod wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I also rotate license plates and repaint my car twice a year.

I also change my facial hair style 4 times a year. Will start getting plastic surgery twice a year starting next year.

Against face recognition you could use CV dazzle makeup [1] to look less like a face. However I wouldn't recommend using that approach for your vehicle

1 https://dangerousminds.net/comments/foil_facebooks_facial_re...

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#320

Post by ryandrake »

beiller wrote: post #299
ryandrake wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the usual "heated seats" example is a poor one, since it's so obviously an optional feature that not everyone would want to hack around. Let's say instead that BMW decided all their car models would be physically 4 seaters, but in order to be allowed to use the back two seats, you had to pay a large monthly "sedan fee". And if they caught you using the back seats without paying, they'd sue you. Would anyone a…

Not sure what you're getting at, but the back seat example here has all the same issues I pointed out above. They actually would weigh even more than seat heaters. I only gave some examples above of why it's bad but there are many more off the top. Either way if I truly think I am right, then BMW, etc should just go ahead with this plan. It should be a money loser for them in the long run. But on second thought why b…

I agree with you 100%. Sometimes on HN we assume when someone replies to us they're disagreeing!
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