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Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

blockworks.co

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Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

#311

Post by JohnFen »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #265
JohnFen wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one of the biggest advantage of crypto stuff is removing the need for reputation and trust. I don't think it does that, though, at least when used as a currency. The irreversibility of crypto transactions means that you have to have some trust that the person you're dealing with will be willing to make things right when erroneous transactions happen.

When people say "trust" in the context of Bitcoin, it's about not having to trust a middle man, e.g. PayPal, who are notorious for capriciously locking you out of your account and stealing your money, or denying service to marginalized populations. It doesn't mean you can't get ripped off by the party you're transacting with directly, but neither does cash, unless you pay for some kind of insurance. Which you can als…

> When people say "trust" in the context of Bitcoin, it's about not having to trust a middle man

That's all fine if you're a cryptocurrency guy, but in terms of what ordinary people mean by "trust", I don't see how cryptocurrency removes "the need for reputation and trust." You still need those things.

> neither does cash

True. Which is why cash also has a need for reputation and trust.

All I'm asserting is that the need to trust people is not eliminated by using cryptocurrency. How is my assertion wrong?

Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

#312

Post by JohnFen »

brian_cloutier wrote: post #239
Analemma_ wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the root comment pretty much already explained it. It is literally impossible for Worldcoin to actually perform its stated purpose, therefore it's a scam.

It is literally impossible for a simple deadbolt to keep intruders from entering your house. Are locks scams? Separately, I strongly suspect that your idea of worldcoin's "stated purpose" is not something they have ever stated.

> It is literally impossible for a simple deadbolt to keep intruders from entering your house. Are locks scams?

If the lock manufacturer asserts or implies greater protection than the product offers (which is actually quite common), then yes, it's a scam.

Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

#313

Post by pcthrowaway »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #206
nefarious_ends wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My identity on hackernews is over 11 years old. Creating such an identity with the comment history, connection to a true name, and content over 11 years would be very expensive. Likely more expensive that a fake passport. Not if you have access to the HN database :^)

Plus now with ChatGPT, you don't even have to write the comments.

Many users here are far more insightful than ChatGPT. You might get some OK comments with ChatGPT and a stray upvote here and there, but I think you're more likely to get banned if you employ ChatGPT to write your HN comments at any significant volume.

Not that everyone writes great comments, all the time, but I'm arguing you probably won't break into the 1000s of HN karma if you try to automate it (because you'll probably get shadowbanned first)

Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

#314

Post by JohnFen »

nemo44x wrote: post #264
Nursie wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it’s pretty easy to imagine capitalism precipitating the end of the world …

I don't see that per-se. I think it's more likely that capitalism continues to rapidly advance technology to the point where we truly do evolve evolution. So a certain part of the global population will have access to DNA synthesizers and other biotech and AI and can reproduce a master race of post-humans that will dominate and eventually annihilate Homosapiens. After a few generations of rapid improvement (a singula…

> Capitalism is a system (much more than just an economic system) that allows for selection like this.

You just described capitalism as a kind of suicide pact.

I don't entirely disagree, but limit this critique to unrestricted capitalism. Unrestricted capitalism is a monster that would, if never restrained, basically destroy everything.

Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

#315

Post by JohnFen »

nemo44x wrote: post #286
Nursie wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or capitalism will fuck the environment so thoroughly before we get there that the above can’t transpire.

Maybe, maybe not - but that's sort of the point. It doesn't really matter since there's no alternative. Accelerationism isn't even a conscience choice per-se - it's a phenomenon that is a product of technological advancement of which Capitalism is the vehicle for. If anything, the only conscious choice is to not resist it as that's ultimately futile since it can't be stopped. Well, unless we went full Teddy K, which…

This is not a rational response, I admit, but I simply cannot accept that our doom is inevitable and resistance is futile. If that's the case, then what's the point of even waking up tomorrow?

Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

#316

Post by JohnFen »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #283
JohnFen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't heard of, and can't think of, a solution to this problem that doesn't introduce much larger problems. Big picture, I don't think the problem of distinguishing humans from bots online is a big enough deal that we should take hits in other areas to solve it. The least-harm solution, as far as I can see right now, is to just accept that the internet cannot be made trustworthy in this way. The only way to know…

What if the person you are dealing with is on the other side of the world? I don't think that really works, you need some kind of trust system. I hope it doesn't turn out that worldcoin is the best solution.

> What if the person you are dealing with is on the other side of the world?

Then you can't be sure.

> you need some kind of trust system.

I agree. I just haven't heard of one that doesn't cause more problems than it solves. Just because we want it doesn't mean we can have it.

Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

#317

Post by JohnFen »

yreg wrote: post #65
pessimizer wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did we believe that we could build an algorithm that provided trust? We can provide "trust", which is when we narrow the definition to verifying whether mathematical objects have been tampered with, or whether they can be observed without secret keys, but we could always make safes. Trusting a safe isn't like trusting a person.

I don't find this helpful. Captchas have solved a real problem. They did work.

Captchas reduced a real problem, certainly, but didn't solve it. And they come with collateral damage.

I'm not asserting that the compromise they present is a bad one (or a good one). Just that they're a compromise.

Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

#318

Post by derangedHorse »

mplewis wrote: post #238

OK, so I gaze into the orb, it generates me a private key, and assigns me a wallet. Now what happens when I leak that private key? Is it all over for me and my money? I obviously can't get another one – you get one World ID per human.

If I recall correctly, the whitepaper talks about using the iris code (generated from your iris image) to associate your private key to your world id. I think one of the purported selling points is that you can recover your identity using an orb and your iris.

Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

#319

Post by AnthonyMouse »

JohnFen wrote: post #311
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people say "trust" in the context of Bitcoin, it's about not having to trust a middle man, e.g. PayPal, who are notorious for capriciously locking you out of your account and stealing your money, or denying service to marginalized populations. It doesn't mean you can't get ripped off by the party you're transacting with directly, but neither does cash, unless you pay for some kind of insurance. Which you can als…

> When people say "trust" in the context of Bitcoin, it's about not having to trust a middle man That's all fine if you're a cryptocurrency guy, but in terms of what ordinary people mean by "trust", I don't see how cryptocurrency removes "the need for reputation and trust." You still need those things. > neither does cash True. Which is why cash also has a need for reputation and trust. All I'm asserting is that the…

Someone says that TLS secures your credit card number when buying things online. Which it does.

You say that it doesn't do that, because someone could break into your house and install a hidden camera to capture you entering in your credit card number and it doesn't prevent that.

But you use other things to prevent that. That isn't the kind of security that TLS claims to provide.

And notably, there aren't a lot of alternatives to the kind of trust that blockchains would allow you to avoid placing in the likes of PayPal.

Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse

#320

Post by philwelch »

latchkey wrote: post #306
philwelch wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis is illegal under US federal law.

Yes, don't take it into the white house.

Buying or selling cannabis anywhere in the United States is a federal crime. I’m not sure what the White House has to do with this, unless you’re making a topical joke but that was cocaine.
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