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FedNow Is Live

federalreserve.gov

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#311

Post by adamsmith143 »

OGWhales wrote: post #111
lavp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it about CBDCs you find concerning compared to cash?

Cash can be spent without being monitored or blocked. A recent example of how this might be relevant is with the protests in Canada that lead to the freezing of the protesters’ bank accounts by the government. While I don’t agree with the protesters, the idea of the government freezing their accounts is alarming. After seeing such control exercised, it’s hard to be excited about a cashless society.

This feels like a boat that sailed long ago. I don't know anyone using cash for anything more than small incidental purchases, I'd say it's generally impossible to structure you life around using Cash at a large scale.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#312

Post by ceejayoz »

dheera wrote: post #305
HoyaSaxa wrote: post #298

For those curious, it is really using IBM MQ[1] under the hood and uses a bespoke flavor of the ISO 20022 specification. The FedNow Service itself is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what actually happens from an end-to-end perspective. We've been working to become a Certified Service Provider so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to share anything that is not under NDA. [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/mq

Does this end the T + 2day ridiculousness? It should be T + 1millisecond at worst. What does it take to update 2 "balance" values in databases?

> What does it take to update 2 "balance" values in databases?

Quite a bit more than you seem to think.

https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-pers...

Re: FedNow Is Live

#313

Post by solardev »

JohnFen wrote: post #287
solardev wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's OK. I'm sure there would still be anonymous forums, the 4chans and reddits of the world and such. But this would enable real-identity communities that we don't currently have, useful for things like public comments and discussions for local news (god, those newspaper comment sections are horrible right now), government requests for comments (like when they're starting a new development or changing land use…

> maybe that would help people behave better, with real-world decorum, in those specific identities I don't think that would be the result, really, because when sites do have real identity requirements, it doesn't increase civility much, if any. I think it's the absence of a physical presence that makes people feel OK with being less civil. Emotionally, it doesn't feel like you're talking with real people. But I don'…

You might be right about that, sadly.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#314

Post by HoyaSaxa »

dheera wrote: post #305
HoyaSaxa wrote: post #298

For those curious, it is really using IBM MQ[1] under the hood and uses a bespoke flavor of the ISO 20022 specification. The FedNow Service itself is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what actually happens from an end-to-end perspective. We've been working to become a Certified Service Provider so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to share anything that is not under NDA. [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/mq

Does this end the T + 2day ridiculousness? It should be T + 1millisecond at worst. What does it take to update 2 "balance" values in databases?

TLDR: Nearly all payments will irrefutably settle within a handful of seconds

Strictly speaking the primary means in which money moves in the United States from a volume perspective is ACH today. That system is a T+1 day from a default perspective, but it has offered the option to same-day settle during a handful of batches throughout a business day. However, ACH is not irrefutable and so it is common to have holds associated with this movement of money.

FedNow is truly 24/7/365 and push only.

All payment flows are subject to an end-to-end payment timeout clock of 20 seconds, starting from the creation timestamp to the point at which the recipient FI (almost always really a Service Provider on their behalf) sends a formal response that they intend to accept or reject the message.

An accepted payment must then be posted to the receiving account "as soon as practicable, but no longer than a few seconds” unless there are compliance/fraud concerns.

In practice, it should rarely take 23 seconds and will likely take 1-5 seconds from an end-to-end perspective depending on the processing speed of the originator, receiver and FedNow Service itself.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#315

Post by [deleted] »

dheera wrote: post #305
HoyaSaxa wrote: post #298

For those curious, it is really using IBM MQ[1] under the hood and uses a bespoke flavor of the ISO 20022 specification. The FedNow Service itself is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what actually happens from an end-to-end perspective. We've been working to become a Certified Service Provider so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to share anything that is not under NDA. [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/mq

Does this end the T + 2day ridiculousness? It should be T + 1millisecond at worst. What does it take to update 2 "balance" values in databases?

[deleted]

Re: FedNow Is Live

#316

Post by iknownothow »

dheera wrote: post #305
HoyaSaxa wrote: post #298

For those curious, it is really using IBM MQ[1] under the hood and uses a bespoke flavor of the ISO 20022 specification. The FedNow Service itself is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what actually happens from an end-to-end perspective. We've been working to become a Certified Service Provider so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to share anything that is not under NDA. [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/mq

Does this end the T + 2day ridiculousness? It should be T + 1millisecond at worst. What does it take to update 2 "balance" values in databases?

The problem is, which "database"? If you know the data is always going to be in the range of ~1TB, use Postgres or some other ACID database. But I don't know of any petabyte scale ACID compliant database.

Also I'm not sure if ACID is sufficient or not for banking systems.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#317

Post by zerocrates »

earthboundkid wrote: post #221
2143 wrote: post #179

Funny thing about topics like this is that people of any given country is oblivious to how other countries have solved that problem, or the challenges other countries face, or inturn the problems that they themselves face. Regarding payment systems specifically, people generally don't realize what they're missing. Pick anybody from anywhere and they'll tell you they've been able to do everything they ever wanted to d…

When I lived in Japan twenty years ago, everybody just wired money electronically and checks were long obsolete. In the US, I write checks every week or so. They also had a system where you would put your checkbook into the teller machine and it would print your credits and debits into the book for you. It was very convenient. On the downside, the ATMs were turned off (!) during national holidays, so you had to get c…

Surprised you're writing checks every week: I haven't written a check in years. ACH transfers, sure, but not physical checks.

I do still receive them occasionally, almost always as printed checks from companies.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#318

Post by realce »

the-dude wrote: post #233
HideousKojima wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA monitoring any and all electronic communications (foreign and domestic) that they can get their hands on, without a warrant. The federal government cutting off financial services for legal but disliked industries such as the gun industry (see the Obama admin's Operation Chokepoint). The Canadian government freezing the bank accounts of those who supported the trucker protest. Not directly related to finances…

> The NSA monitoring any and all electronic communications (foreign and domestic) ... Not revealed in the last 5 years. > The federal government cutting off financial services for ... Not revealed in the last 5 years. Was this subject of an actual conspiracy theory? > The Canadian government freezing the bank accounts of those who supported the trucker protest. At least this is within 5 years. I can't judge if this w…

"The diabolical criminals in power have done everything you say, but I quibble about the timeline you spoke of" is not a dunk like you might think.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#319

Post by ccleve »

HoyaSaxa wrote: post #298

For those curious, it is really using IBM MQ[1] under the hood and uses a bespoke flavor of the ISO 20022 specification. The FedNow Service itself is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what actually happens from an end-to-end perspective. We've been working to become a Certified Service Provider so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to share anything that is not under NDA. [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/mq

Tell us as much as you can about the tech stack. What is going to be able to handle truly massive volumes of transactions? Database, hardware, communications channels, programming lang, everything.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#320

Post by imtringued »

lockhouse wrote: post #47
kemotep wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the government program money to expire? Would the money not become effectively worthless the closer to the expiration date? Why would a business accept transactions from people with money that’s about to expire would that then mean they would be giving away goods and services for free potentially?

In theory you spending it would reset the expiration date. If you know your money will expire you will spend it, thus stimulating the economy. We also can’t have the dirty proles save their way to a higher social class.

There are easy ways to get around this. This isn't actually practical to implement. You could just buy and sell stocks within a second.

> We also can’t have the dirty proles save their way to a higher social class.

I don't know what you mean by this. Rich people spend their money at a slower rate than poor people so the rich would be disproportionately impacted by this. Someone living paycheck to paycheck isn't going to have much money that can expire to begin with.

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