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The past is not true

sive.rs

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Re: The past is not true

#311

Post by krapp »

Loughla wrote: post #307
macksd wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or at least what some Christians take from it > Doesn't matter what I do, Jesus will take care of me Well yes let's be clear that only a very selective reading of the New Testament allows you to conclude Jesus doesn't think it matters what you do. It's the same kind of logic that leads one to preach the "prosperity gospel". It's very clear that loving Jesus goes hand in hand with loving others and living his comman…

I genuinely don't get the prosperity gospel. Can someone please explain how it could at all be a legitimate interpretation of Christianity? Or is it just a flat out scam the entire way down?

I don't think the guy who assaulted the moneychangers in the temple, said it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter Heaven, and more than once told his followers to give everything they owned to the poor would be down with the prosperity gospel. Jesus would probably recite the parable of the talents, and tell you that if God gives you riches, it's to benefit the community and the poor, not for you to hoard as if you could take any of it with you.

But then again, one could argue that any interpretation of Christianity is legitimate, just as any interpretation of art or literature is legitimate. Prosperity gospel is no more out there than Gnosticism was, and only politics and culture determines what is and isn't canon. It isn't surprising that the prosperity gospel is a product of the capitalist and materialist US.

Still... it seems like a reach.

Re: The past is not true

#312

Post by AlbertCory »

renewiltord wrote: post #308
AlbertCory wrote: post #306

.. and then there is faux forgiveness that covers up for something else. In the movie Hired Gun , Liberty DeVitto, former drummer for Billy Joel, tells in gruesome detail how Billy screwed him over, along with his two bandmates. Then he tells us how he bears no ill will for Billy, and shows a letter to him saying that he'll always be there for him. I think a lot of people like to say they've forgiven because it sound…

That was a damned entertaining read, friend. Thanks for putting it together.

You're welcome, and thanks!

Re: The past is not true

#313

Post by Loocid »

throwaway106382 wrote: post #154
tppiotrowski wrote: post #96

I had this moment during the Covid pandemic. I read a lot of history and I saw pictures of the Spanish influenza and was told it killed more people than WW1. Somehow I pictured the world in the late 1910s with everyone sick and in hospital but now I think it was more like Covid. People got sick and died but life went on and some people were completely unaffected. The world doesn't grind to a halt for world wars and p…

It doesn't help that a lot of "history" is actually just propaganda, for example the infamous "iron lungs in the gym" photo during the polio pandemic.

Can you expand on this? I'm not following what you mean by your example. I tried googling the iron lung image but couldn't find much.

Re: The past is not true

#314

Post by aodonnell2536 »

macksd wrote: post #291
aodonnell2536 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a line of thinking that really intrigues me, are there any external resources you would suggest to further read about it? Other than the Bible, of course

You Are Here by Thich Nhat Hanh explores this idea a lot. To the extent you consider Buddhist philosophy religious, it is still religious, but it is not the Bible. However the philisophy is similar enough that the author actually references both in harmony. That said it's also a very well received book among secular audiences so if you're intrigued by the idea and don't care much for the Bible, I think you'd like it.

Thank you! I’ll check it out.

Re: The past is not true

#315

Post by keepamovin »

carapace wrote: post #75
keepamovin wrote: post #42

He's saying what happened, happened. What you make it mean, is up to you. The story you tell yourself, is a story you can rewrite. This beautiful story is one of the truest things I've read on HN in 8 years. This guy lived crippled by what the story he told himself about what happened for half his life. Then with a new story, a new encounter, he set himself free. Incredibly brave to tell this tale. Some people live i…

Just wanted to add that you don't need external chemicals to do this sort of thing. It's pretty easy to learn to enter trance at will and then do things like, e.g. "Parental Timeline Re-imprinting" where you go back in time, give your parents resources to be better, then live forward a whole new life with the new, resourceful parents. Afterward your nervous system will respond as if the fictional, imaginary life was…

Totally agree man!

But external chemicals may help some people (some people may be in a state where it's really hard for them to learn what may come a lot easier to folks like me and you~~not everyone is good at navigating their own internal terrain).

Just like you don't need a therapist to guide you, but everyone has different capabilities to do so themselves, and therapist can benefit. I know how to do this, sounds like you know too, even folks like us who know how to do it themselves, I think should be open to the experience of being guided by someone else to see what it's like.

This re-timelining can be used for many things. And it's not fiction. Your body makes it real, and it's more real than that, too.

I think chemistry helps, it's not strictly necessary, but there's a whole lot of psych (placebo etc), and structural (makes more sense as a therapy / economic activity in that industry to combine with an agent, probably lead to that therapy getting more traction and helping more people), and real (chemistry clearly helps, ancients have been using it) reasons that make the combination therapy of chemistry plus therapist a really good option to be generally available! :)

I am not with you on there's no free will. There's definitely free will. (and it can be a cope to pretend there's not, I think, because it gets you out of personal responsibility, a thing lots of folks have an issue with!). Because it's a choice. I mean, there's even a choice to rewrite your story in the ways we're talking about. That's clearly free will, to you, right?

Re: The past is not true

#316

Post by keepamovin »

mrguyorama wrote: post #227
keepamovin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So sad that you missed the point. Open up to it man

What point? That this person is saying "I believed I did a bad thing and it turned out to be wrong so I exclaim that there is no objective reality and you shouldn't beat yourself up over bad things you think you did because maybe they weren't really that bad"? Come on, this fails even basic logic. One event being misremembered is not valid proof that all or even many events are misremembered to your advantage.

Thanks for sharing what you found there! I don't know, I get if you take that from it, but it just seems a narrow interpretation. And there's a wider view, that's a very useful one, that I think you've missed too.

Re: The past is not true

#317

Post by keepamovin »

wpietri wrote: post #118
sharkjacobs wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know exactly when that episode of Northern Exposure aired but this story dates back to 2nd century BCE[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_old_man_lost_his_horse

That only shows how wily the Chinese are about IP theft, building time-viewing technology 2,000 years ago so that they could rip off American pop culture. Especially clever of them to steal things that sound like ancient parables and plant them in ancient times.

That's pretty funny! Thanks for the laugh :)

Re: The past is not true

#318

Post by d1l »

This is the so self-serving and self-congratulatory! He had the nerve to cry on her doorstep, which says he didn't want to apologize, but to be forgiven and to make a show of it.

Amending past wrongs is about showing up without any regard for your own feeling and the intention to do whatever is in your power to set the wrong aright. You admit the wrong and then you listen.

I get it that to the author this is some cute meta-story about "we were both wrong!" But truly acknowledging one's fault is antithetical to this kind of fawning over oneself and infantile moralizing.

Re: The past is not true

#319

Post by keepamovin »

anbende wrote: post #104
thanksbucko wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have a skewed view of the frequency of that level of abuse, due to the (very important) work you do. When it comes to humans there are exceptions to every rule, but not every single exception needs be called out. Not everything is “problematic” nor worth an “oof”.

It’s simply an example, though a somewhat extreme one, of the problem with the GP’s generalization. I think it actually relates to the original article. There’s a difference between mere interpretation and what actually happened. “You should forgive your parents, because one day you’ll be older and see their perspective” collapses “interpretations develop and mature” with “some events are a problem”. Both can be forg…

Thank you. This is important to say, seriously. This kind of "pop psych" notion that you should just "forgive your parents" even if they abused you, definitely is retraumatizing and works to try diminish the impact of the abuse and your feelings about it. Which shouldn't be minimized, but processed, I think. Especially because, it seems a lot of times, people coming from that situation don't see how fucked up it was, because it was their only experience, and until they see how good parents behave they don't realize how poorly they were mistreated. I think this is why it's important to face it, and process it, rather than never understand or just "forgive".

BTW~~what kind of psychological process, thought do people you treat go through when they forgive really abusive people or behavior, people that meant to hurt them, with malice? How does forgiveness look like for the person going choosing it and what are the effects? Sorry, it's a big question! No probs if you don't want to or can't answer it! :)

Re: The past is not true

#320

Post by cgio »

d1l wrote: post #318

This is the so self-serving and self-congratulatory! He had the nerve to cry on her doorstep, which says he didn't want to apologize, but to be forgiven and to make a show of it. Amending past wrongs is about showing up without any regard for your own feeling and the intention to do whatever is in your power to set the wrong aright. You admit the wrong and then you listen. I get it that to the author this is some cut…

That’s harsh. Showing up is demonstrably an action in the direction of making things right , apologising is not out of a pure disconnected entity, but out of a being with feelings, driven by them to do right. Perhaps if the story was different, he would have gotten the proper moralising tune, but that was his experience and that’s the tune he found appropriate. I don’t agree with his findings but that does not mean I question his intentions.
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