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Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

privacy.thenexus.today

311–320 of 458 posts

Re: Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

#311
post #298
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the US justice system will be glad to let you sue after you've been murdered by an online mob that found out where you live

If you get doxed buy {a gun, multiple guns}, preferably a rifle with a red dot or EOTECH and a suppressor, if you can. Guns stop riots.

What if the rioters have guns with red dots and a suppressor?

Re: Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

#312
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you're at all concerned about privacy, the fediverse is not for you. It is anti-privacy by design. Once you've posted something to it, you have absolutely no control over who has that data and what they do with it. That's the fundamental design of the system. Complaining about meta potentially ingesting all data from the fediverse comes off as a bit naive. Meta is the least of the privacy concerns on the fediverse…

> Once you've posted something to it, you have absolutely no control over who has that data and what they do with it. That's the fundamental design of the system. Welcome to the Internet. It’s always been like that.

I mostly agree with you.

but if I'm posting to facebook/twitter, I have privacy settings that they legally have to adhere to. Of course this doesn't prevent all scraping/copying/whatnot/whathaveyou, but it's a lot harder to scrape a private profile than something on the fediverse. Most of these sites have a vested interest in preventing scraping and the like. I have some control even if it's not great.

Fediverse I don't even have an idea off where my data is much less what their security/privacy practices are.

Re: Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

#313
This is very akin the dilemma of getting yourself a very secretive and secured email: all the privacy and security stops the matter the moment you send an email to somebody with a GMail; the entire thread is visible below (through a chain of quote blocks) and it's game over.

If you want true privacy, make a centralized self-hosted service where people have to be allowed in explicitly.

Don't see what the problem is in the OP, they are kind of expressing displeasure that a service that technically can be scraped by almost anyone is... you know, scheduled for scraping and exposed. And at the same time nobody actually bothered to prevent the scenario from happening.

And this also looks very much like the early internet: people didn't think others are malicious so security was minimal.

This kind of naivete really needs to get clubbed to death. We can't afford being as naive nowadays.

Re: Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

#314
post #311
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get doxed buy {a gun, multiple guns}, preferably a rifle with a red dot or EOTECH and a suppressor, if you can. Guns stop riots.

What if the rioters have guns with red dots and a suppressor?

I think it would probably stop at some point, due to the chilling effect on riots due to a lot of rioters being killed and the probable presence of police and federal agents. It would probably be too late to save you, but it might be a cause to repeal the machine gun ban, so future people could mount machine guns to the back of their pickups, etc.

Re: Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

#315
post #252
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I stopped reading the article once it mentioned people getting annoyed and wanting to control who sees their public content. You don't get to make that call. The community doesn't get to make that call. The protocol makes that call and the protocol allows anybody to view stuff you post publicly. You don't get to say "I publish this but Meta can't view it". Not even legally you don't. That's not privacy and no am…

Controlling who can see your content is actually a very reasonable feature; some things are not meant for everybody, but just for the people who actually know you. But it's not a use case that ActivityPub was designed for. Google+ had a really nice feature where you could easily control who can see your post. Diapora has something similar, but considering it's federated, I'm not sure if you can really guarantee it. I…

The funniest thing about people wanting this kind of transitive control is that the only technical way to achieve this is through a wall-garden model like ... Facebook. Indeed, Meta/FB is eager to train people to want this model 'cause they know you at least one referee controlling everything if you have this transitive model.

Diapora has something similar, but considering it's federated, I'm not sure if you can really guarantee it.

Exactly, this level of access requires a hegemon. Who will be the hegemon?

Re: Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defederating from Meta as a solution is stupid - Meta can (and will if they actually care enough) just rejoin undercover. I agree with the rest of your post but I suspect that in this instance Meta, a large public company, that might leery about doing something that potentially embarassing. But your basic point remains true. A wide variety of companies, many bad actor, are going to be scraping, processing and connect…

>I agree with the rest of your post but I suspect that in this instance Meta, a large public company, that might leery about doing something that potentially embarassing. I wouldn't say that the company directly responsible for the state of online discourse today as being leery of doing anything. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/29/facebook-... It has published details of a vast experiment in which it…

>...the company directly responsible for the state of online discourse today...

The company, huh? Not Twitter, not "us", not the properties of online discourse, the polarization of American and world political ideologies...

Anyway, this "hating on" FB doesn't change the situation.

Re: Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Defederating from Meta as a solution is stupid One question I've had for fediverse people is how you prevent a federated system from centralizing. I am legitimately curious. Email is often given as an example, but imo that a perfect example of a decentralized system BECOMING centralized. Sure, other players exist but the vast majority of people are on gmail, apple, or outlook (which is much smaller than the other t…

I've seen email being centralized mentioned a few times but I don't think it's true. I email with plenty of people who don't use gsuite... seems to work fine. I can see a power distribution, sure, but that's still a distribution not a central organized cabal that stops newcomers. Still I agree -- decentralized paradigms that are successful seem like they'd end up with big players like you describe eventually. Still b…

The reason there's this confusion between us is that we're using the term monopoly (and consequently centralization) to refer to different things. A lot of people don't use the word to refer to the pure sense but rather the practical.

A pure monopoly (a single story) is rather uncommon and usually associated with government direction. Generally these don't exist without government intervention because if anyone is able to create a company, in any form, and sell the same product/service (in any form/price) then it's technically not pure. So doesn't happen unless it's illegal or some other factor. Whereas an effective monopoly refers to dominance in market share.

The reason a practical monopoly is used is because we need to look at the reason to why we discuss monopolies in the first place. Usually it is because they are bad (but they aren't always). The reason they can be bad is because abuse of power: they are able to dictate the market and force prices that are unreasonable.

So with this understanding, we usually call things like Coke+Pepsi a duopoly despite a combined market share of 68% (48% + 20.5%). Or we talk about oil despite OPEC not even being 40% (followed by Persian gulf, oapec, then US), and all of these are multiple players. Similarly we say the same about ISPs. The problem with these isn't that it's single player control, but rather significant market share and the leverage that comes with that, which includes the ability to reduce competition and effectively cornering the market.

I want to give this explanation so we can discuss on the same page and understand what each other means. Because when I'm referring to email (context clues should tell you I don't mean pure -- I mentioned multiple players) I'm referring to these companies abilities to force aspects onto others. Maybe a more clear example is browsers because Chrome's pressure is frequently discussed here and Explorer's previous history also shows similar influence.

I'm not saying decentralized services will become 100% centralized by a single player (it would be incredibly naïve to interpret my words to mean that), but that people will collect into a small set of servers (likely seeing a power distribution) who then have a clear ability to use their leverage and dictate the format of smaller servers. Effectively this is not too different than the power that Salesforce has over Slack. While not absolute power, it is closer to that end of the spectrum than a fully decentralized system. If you make the mistake of creating two bins -- centralized vs decentralized -- you are missing the entire point of decentralized systems. At least the point that is philosophically argued.

Try to realize that when people are talking they have different priors than you. Language is messy and communication is about the exchange of ideas. So even if you disagree with my definitions (neither of ours are objective) you can still argue my points. Just claiming semantics is problematic because it derails the conversation or creates artificial contention. See 5.11 of the Simple Sabotage Field Manual.

Re: Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

#318

If you have personal information you do not wish bad actors to see, do not publish it using an open protocol explicitly designed to allow anyone to read said information. Defederating from Meta as a solution is stupid - Meta can (and will if they actually care enough) just rejoin undercover. Furthermore, when it comes to the fediverse, Meta is actually one of the more trusted actors compared to whatever else is on th…

That was one of the problems with mewe. Sure, there's a good privacy policy. But what you're posting is more or less public, so the point is almost moot.

MeWe was nice though, really great communities on there back in the day

Re: Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

#319
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, you know the space they operate. That space is limited by profits, what their immense legal team allows, and their immense security team controls. The alternative is, literally, a complete stranger, with no track record, unknown motives, and (as the recent hacks showed) doesn't have the skillset to keep your information secure anyways.

>The alternative is, literally, a complete stranger, with no track record, unknown motives, and (as the recent hacks showed) doesn't have the skillset to keep your information secure anyways. That's not the only alternative. Another is, literally, me , someone I know very well, with a lifetime track record that I'm intimately familiar with, known motives and the skillset to keep my information secure. It's called "ho…

My understanding is that many popular lemmy instances use an allow list, which means your replies to comments will go to the void. Is this true? I'm having trouble finding a clear answer.

Re: Blocking Threads won't be enough to protect privacy once they join the Fediverse

#320
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Defederating from Meta as a solution is stupid One question I've had for fediverse people is how you prevent a federated system from centralizing. I am legitimately curious. Email is often given as an example, but imo that a perfect example of a decentralized system BECOMING centralized. Sure, other players exist but the vast majority of people are on gmail, apple, or outlook (which is much smaller than the other t…

For the moment it cannot be too centralized since Mastodon being the main software becomes prohibitively expensive to run.

Prohibitively expensive implies more centralization not less
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