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The Never Married, a New Normal

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Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#311

Post by runsWphotons »

illiac786 wrote: post #293
627467 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. This. And ultimately having kids with this person is another ego-exposing (and hopefully ego busting - but that's not guaranteed) exercise that contemporary societies gave up trying with varying excuses ranging "economical" to "climate saving" reasons.

Do you see a lot the argument that having kids is bad for the environment? Can I ask where? I do not disagree, I just rarely hear it, it's something people are afraid to day out loud in my social network, it's socially unacceptable, but it's changing a bit.

This is everywhere. Google something like "childfree environment" and see floods of articles and testimonials. People will also say this in person, or at least express reticence over it, but I also find that less so than I see it online or YouTube. As to what percent of people actually follow through with not having kids with this as the true primary motivation, Idk.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#312

Post by Glawen »

stevekemp wrote: post #298
Glawen wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean? You see other partners?

Yes, but even without that there are a fair number of people I'm aware of who live (monogomously) in seperate flats/houses to their spouse.

That is something in old European aristocratic families indeed, that's very far from my peasant's life.

I'm just wondering what's the point of staying married then?

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#313

Post by peteradio »

illiac786 wrote: post #293
627467 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. This. And ultimately having kids with this person is another ego-exposing (and hopefully ego busting - but that's not guaranteed) exercise that contemporary societies gave up trying with varying excuses ranging "economical" to "climate saving" reasons.

Do you see a lot the argument that having kids is bad for the environment? Can I ask where? I do not disagree, I just rarely hear it, it's something people are afraid to day out loud in my social network, it's socially unacceptable, but it's changing a bit.

NPR had a segment on women who chose to be child free and it was a widely cited reason. They either didn't want to bring a child into a world that would be in bad shape or felt it was selfish to bring more burden onto mother nature.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#314

Post by kitsunesoba »

monissiddiqui wrote: post #257
hotpotamus wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a society didn't find some way to last beyond the lifespan of a human, then it wouldn't be much of a society.

It's surprising how individualistic people are in developed countries. They are literally self-selecting themselves out of the gene pool! Just goes to show "smart" does not mean wise. Apparently making sure humanity doesn't continue on to the next generation isn't considered a moral responsibility. And they get salty wondering why religious communities will be the majority throughout time. I guess these governments w…

I don’t mind doing my “part” for perpetuating humanity or what have you (though as the sibling comment points out, there are plenty of kids being born without my help), but what I was getting at in my comment is that it seems unwise to jump into that without first learning how to be a fully functional member of society and coming to know oneself, neither of which most people have managed to accomplish until they’re at least in their mid-20s.

If I’d buckled to societal pressure and gotten married as an overgrown kid, the chances that the marriage would ultimately succeed would’ve been a lot lower which means a lot of unnecessary emotional turmoil for everybody involved, including any kids.

I don’t think it’s particularly selfish or unwise to aim for a successful marriage over getting married ASAP. If anything I find it thoughtless and selfish to rope somebody into a relationship you don’t even have the life experience to know if you’re ready for yet.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#315

Post by illiac786 »

fractallyte wrote: post #303
illiac786 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see a lot the argument that having kids is bad for the environment? Can I ask where? I do not disagree, I just rarely hear it, it's something people are afraid to day out loud in my social network, it's socially unacceptable, but it's changing a bit.

A lot of links and discussion on this account: https://twitter.com/Sashkapapashka

“life is futile and will inevitably lead to suffering, decay and death”. Ok, but she really is of the opinion that life in general is futile, independently of the state of our planet… I mean life has always lead to death and decay, and had always meant suffering (amonst other things), especially thousands of years ago.

Not saying what she says is meaningless, but she’s not really about saving the planet.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#316

Post by rrgok »

mlindner wrote: post #224

The new normal on how civilization gradually ends. People need to stop not having kids. You’re destroying civilization in the long term.

At the risk of being downvoted to hell. I'm genuinely trying to understand: what would the issue if civilization collapse and, in the extreme case, human species goes extinct? If you are not alive by then (which is probably the case), would you feel something?

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#318

Post by illiac786 »

runsWphotons wrote: post #311
illiac786 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see a lot the argument that having kids is bad for the environment? Can I ask where? I do not disagree, I just rarely hear it, it's something people are afraid to day out loud in my social network, it's socially unacceptable, but it's changing a bit.

This is everywhere. Google something like "childfree environment" and see floods of articles and testimonials. People will also say this in person, or at least express reticence over it, but I also find that less so than I see it online or YouTube. As to what percent of people actually follow through with not having kids with this as the true primary motivation, Idk.

Very interesting. My social circles are significantly older than the women deciding not to have children – apart from Stephanie Mills, which actually did have a child. I guess time will tell if these women are being serious or if it’s just a pretext to push back on social pressure (and I 100% agree on pushing back this type of pressure).

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#319

Post by pkphilip »

ameminator wrote: post #90
throwaway1492 wrote: post #49

I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd. To me getting married was about getting out of myself. As someone who got married later in life, I’d spent decades living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. Relationships were shallow and lasted only so long as convenient. By choosing to get married and intentional build a family, I knew I was sacrificing a lot of ego and choosing to give…

I can sacrifice my ego through meditation and acts of charity/volunteer work. No need to risk half of my current assets and future income on the whims of some potentially capricious other person, who probably doesn't like me very much anyways. Good luck to you, however.

I think it is more than just about "ego". I think we are conditioned to be self-seeking.. selfish individuals. Being married forces one to look beyond one's own comfort zone, own desires etc to prioritise the interests of others in the family. For instance, when you have a spouse who is not well, you will need to take care of them - even if that means suspending your meditation session or saying no to something like volunteering at a shelter which may give you a sense of meaning and purpose.

Marriage is not for everyone because it requires dying to one's own self a bit. So it is not really a path to self actualisation. But is definitely a way of putting oneself in a position where one is no longer focused on one own's progress psychologically, emotionally, financially etc and others and their interests become more important.

So if you are looking at marriage as a way of improving oneself, you may be in for a reality shock. That may happen but it happens at some cost and isn't the point of getting married.

Does it sound masochistic? well, on the surface it does. But it is part of being a mature person for a large part of humanity and is often a hard path but there are others who have chosen celibacy - which may infact be even harder.

Having said that, having someone by your side who you genuinely care for and who cares for you and who you can grow old with is quite a treat.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#320

Post by paulryanrogers »

ux-app wrote: post #207
paulryanrogers wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be interested in a ceremony celebrating a commitment to cohabitation and partnership that sheds the baggage of a wedding and marriage. Especially if it didn't involve renting a venue, 25% mark ups, hurt feelings from non-invited folks, decades of expectation building, and an industrial complex focused on money extraction.

ehh, it's a choice to buy into any of that bullshit. we eloped $3,000km away to the tropics to get married. it was more of a holiday with a wedding day thrown in. we loosely, no expectations, invited a few friends and family and were pleasantly surprised to find 30 people met us there. The whole thing, holiday and all cost us around $10k and was a total blast. I found the traditional wedding day routine to be super c…

The industry says weddings are "all about the bride", and IME the marketing seems almost exclusively targeting women and their anxiety. So it may be challenging to find a partner similarly minded.
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