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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#311

Post by threeseed »

mrighele wrote: post #250
barathr wrote: post #195

I wrote up a quick analysis last night here: https://ioc.exchange/@invisv/110387246627189198 Here are the takeaways: * It'd be easy for Apple and Google to prevent downloads of TikTok for most users, which would also include app updates, as they have a significant amount of knowledge of users' locations and could prevent most users in Montana -- even those using a VPN -- from downloading the app or updating it. * It'…

> It'd be very difficult for Montana to enforce the other piece of the TikTok ban I don't know if it is technically and legally feasible in Montana, but you "just" need to block the endpoints that the app uses to fetch the data. It is not foolproof, but given that ByteDance probably has interest in keeping doing business in the rest of the USA, at least for now, it would be fineable in case it was trying to avoid the…

Technically and legally it's trivial and common.

They just ask any ISPs and telcos operating in the state to ban the URL.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#312

Post by claytongulick »

Volundr wrote: post #197
claytongulick wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, in other words, all "conservatives" don't necessarily agree on or believe the same things, and this varies by person and by region. Like any political group, there's a wide variety of ideas. Religious right folks get lumped together with constitutional libertarians, but have very, very different ideas on the proper limits of legislation and government power. And yes, there are both idiots and brilliant thinkers i…

I think there is still value in pointing out that the Republican party line of individual liberties and small government is nothing but marketing jingle. When it comes down to brass tacks they are as quick to use the government to crack down on an individuals choices as the other guys.

You mean a political party has talking points that they don't always live up to?

Next you'll tell me that there have been presidents that haven't lived up to their campaign promises...

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#313

Post by [deleted] »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #160
falcolas wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, no. Montana would have to be effectively regulating interstate trade since neither Apple nor Google have offices here. Plus, the whole "negotiate commerce and treaties with foreign entities" thing.

The Supreme Court just upheld California rules about the sale of pork. Looking at it strictly from the interstate commerce view, this doesn’t appear much different.

[deleted]

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#314

Post by threeseed »

DanAtC wrote: post #269

Is there a precedent of app stores needing to enforce app restrictions on a state-by-state basis? What if Apple protests and just disables their store in MT? It would only impact at _most_ 500k people (population 1mm at 50% market share, not accounting for demographics) A huge number of angry Montanians who might vote their representatives out, but a rounding error for Apple.

As countless developers have learnt over the decades: no app is bigger than Apple.

They will never shut down their store because of TikTok.

And some people might protest but everyone else will quietly switch to YouTube Shorts and Instagram Reels.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#315

Post by dudus »

threeseed wrote: post #311
mrighele wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It'd be very difficult for Montana to enforce the other piece of the TikTok ban I don't know if it is technically and legally feasible in Montana, but you "just" need to block the endpoints that the app uses to fetch the data. It is not foolproof, but given that ByteDance probably has interest in keeping doing business in the rest of the USA, at least for now, it would be fineable in case it was trying to avoid the…

Technically and legally it's trivial and common. They just ask any ISPs and telcos operating in the state to ban the URL.

But then TikTok can still detect your location. Unless you spoof that, remove the permission or patch the apk.

Then you still need to update almost daily to keep using it.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#316

Post by threeseed »

mikece wrote: post #105

Tomorrow's story: "Residents of Montana discover VPNs and how to use them!" Between Utah and Montana the awareness and use of VPNs is rising among the non-security-conscious, and this is a good thing.

VPNs don't help in this case.

You would need to setup a new Apple ID/Google account with no credit card billing information.

And then deal with all of the inconvenience that entails i.e. no more paid apps, need to cancel subscriptions etc.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#317

Post by hiatus »

falcolas wrote: post #100
jameshart wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do states ? (edit - oops, see correction below) There's nothing in this law that would unban TikTok if its ownership were transferred to a US corporation.

As I understand it, nope. States can't negotiate treaties on the US' behalf. Commerce and sanctions would fall under that as I understand it. States also can't regulate interstate trade, which I believe trying to penalize Apple and Google would constitute, since neither has a office in Montana.

Why can California require auto manufacturers to comply with their emissions standards if it is in effect regulating interstate trade?

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#318

Post by knaik94 »

barathr wrote: post #195

I wrote up a quick analysis last night here: https://ioc.exchange/@invisv/110387246627189198 Here are the takeaways: * It'd be easy for Apple and Google to prevent downloads of TikTok for most users, which would also include app updates, as they have a significant amount of knowledge of users' locations and could prevent most users in Montana -- even those using a VPN -- from downloading the app or updating it. * It'…

Part of the issue is that the government itself takes part in that marketplace as a seller and buyer. There's no resonable way to make laws for corporations while giving a pass to government agencies, it might be proposed but it would never pass. One of the biggest clients of Cambridge Analytica was the Trump campaign.

I became disillusioned about hoping laws pass that protect user data after watching the TikTok hearing. The congressman questioning whether TikTok tracks eye dialation as a signal for "the algorithm", and the CEO having to explain that it's used for funny face filters, gave me second hand embarrasment. It reminds me of the Facebook hearing where a congressman ask whether it was possible to ban "finsta" and the Head of Global Safety at FB reponding that it's not a product. It's people having a secondary personal account limited to specific friends. An explanation the congressman was having a hard time understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPZA98whQGI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGt1Ukg7q4Y

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#319

Post by Jemaclus »

threeseed wrote: post #314
DanAtC wrote: post #269

Is there a precedent of app stores needing to enforce app restrictions on a state-by-state basis? What if Apple protests and just disables their store in MT? It would only impact at _most_ 500k people (population 1mm at 50% market share, not accounting for demographics) A huge number of angry Montanians who might vote their representatives out, but a rounding error for Apple.

As countless developers have learnt over the decades: no app is bigger than Apple. They will never shut down their store because of TikTok. And some people might protest but everyone else will quietly switch to YouTube Shorts and Instagram Reels.

While I agree with the "no app is bigger than Apple," I'm not sure the TikTok ban is specifically about TikTok. This opens the door to each state doing similar things for whatever they want -- imagine Alabama banning period-tracking apps or California banning Parler.

I'm not convinced Apple or Google want to be in the business of state governments telling them what apps they can and can't sell. Although I do concede that they do this at the country level, so what's one more level of geo-restriction? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#320

Post by HillRat »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #112
falcolas wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard, there was a "per use" fine for usage as well. Honestly, I haven't looked at this farce of a bill since it was first introduced. EDIT: S1: An entity violates this prohibition when any of the following occurs within the territorial jurisdiction of Montana: (a) the operation of tiktok by the company or users; or (b) the option to download the tiktok mobile application by a mobile application store.

Does a state even have a right to do something like this? Somehow, I feel like if California tried to ban Fox News - it would not fly. This doesn't seem that different, though I personally find it amusing that it's coming from a conservative state. I do agree TikTok is toxic trash - but I'd say the same about Fox News - and it just doesn't seem like something a state has the ability to ban.

Unless they changed up the bill since I looked at it, you’ve got a bill of attainder with serious Constitutional issues, including First Amendment, due process, and dormant Commerce Clause problems. It’s very hard for me to see a federal court letting this stand, even at a time where every day brings another “federal court lets bad law stand” story.
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