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Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

economist.com

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Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#311

Post by llanowarelves »

asveikau wrote: post #310
llanowarelves wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the links. Why is the phrase "conspiracy theory" used for that though? Sounds like it's a value-judgement free decision from manufacturers to follow the incentives from the policy as we'd predict: way cheaper and less work to make those (now pretty popular) vehicles bigger than R&D and re-tool factories to make smaller and/or more efficient. It would need to be made more efficient to get smaller otherwise…

I was a bit tongue in cheek and playing off the previous comment using the phrase "conspiracy theory". It has a bad connotation, but I guess not all things that sound like conspiracy theories are false. Another car themed topic is when Standard Oil and Firestone Tires colluded to buy up trolly lines and shut them down.

Ah gotcha, thanks for clarification.

Things can be a conspiracy of common interests (and not even necessarily be bad), whether or not that's what this is, without involving "smoky rooms" (also known as boardrooms; but for fun on that topic, check out full history of NCR, company was nuts).

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#312

Post by downrightmike »

paulsutter wrote: post #264
nostromo wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't necessarily regulatory capture or protectionism. Half of all cars sold in the US are imported. Toyota, a Japanese company, is the most popular brand of car sold in the US. So, yes, you can import cars all you want, they just need to follow US safety and emissions standards. These cars do not meet those requirements, so you can't import them. If you didn't block them as imports, we'd have lots of people jus…

If emissions were the concern they’d just require the cars to pass emissions. Although I strongly favor allowing import of recent foreign cars, safety features are a much better practical objection for folks who love objecting to good things. Non-US cars would lack many many mandated features and there’s no workaround

Maybe pick a model and make an aftermarket upgrade kit

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#313

Post by trafnar »

RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u wrote: post #303
nyx wrote: post #29

The 25-year import rule here, which bans Americans from importing vehicles from other countries unless they're 25+ years old, is just awful for those of us who would be interested in driving small, efficient foreign cars. It would be great to live completely car-free, but absent major changes to how we plan our cities, it's just a sad reality that cars are a necessary ingredient to life in the vast majority of Americ…

> [...] awful for those of us who would be interested in driving small, efficient foreign cars. I currently drive a small efficient car, but I'm seriously contemplating buying an electric SUV for my next car, even though I've no use for it. I don't drive a lot, but every time I drive, I see drivers on their phones, drivers who don't signal, drivers who race the lights, drivers who don't turn their head lights on at n…

Isn’t it better in safety due to the physics you mentioned?

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#314

Post by jjoonathan »

llanowarelves wrote: post #304
jjoonathan wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's value-judgement free if they had no hand in crafting or maintaining the loophole, but undermining popular policy with a loophole is a very common strategy for dodging regulation. If that's the case here then they aren't simply honest corporations just trying to sail the sea of incentives, they are more like a schoolyard bully who has grabbed an environmental cause by the hand and is doing the "why are you punchi…

I don't disagree with you on that component of it existing. The thing about policy is usually somebody big is warning the public ahead of time that the "affordable healthcare bill" (for another example) isn't actually affordable healthcare (it's mandated health insurance), get called debby-downers/negative/hateful, and then it happens that way anyway due to lawmaker and corp PR pushing it through while everyone else…

It's fascinating that you think this has to do with the spirit of the bill at the same time as you list off the forces holding that spirit captive.

You didn't reason yourself into this position, so I don't think you'll be reasoned out of it.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#315

Post by chrisco255 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #229
munificent wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still drive a manual 2002 Toyota Tacoma and you'll have to claw it out of my dead hands for this exact reason. I really love the utility of a pick-up truck, but I absolutely despise the size of any of them in the US in the past couple of decades. I wish they still made mid-sized pick-ups that were actually mid-sized. A Tacoma is nearly the size of Tundra was twenty years ago, and a Tundra today is like the size of…

Yeah, what the hell happened? And I miss my manual (1980's?) Chevy Luv.

If you want to actually carry passengers in your truck, you want 4 doors and a full back seat. The new Tacomas are great trucks, because it's practical to carry cargo or people in them. Old single cab Rangers, Luvs, Tacomas, etc, were fine, but not as broad market.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#316

Post by RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u »

trafnar wrote: post #313
RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] awful for those of us who would be interested in driving small, efficient foreign cars. I currently drive a small efficient car, but I'm seriously contemplating buying an electric SUV for my next car, even though I've no use for it. I don't drive a lot, but every time I drive, I see drivers on their phones, drivers who don't signal, drivers who race the lights, drivers who don't turn their head lights on at n…

Isn’t it better in safety due to the physics you mentioned?

Yes and no. Let's say everyone drives compact cars, then my risk level -- completely made up number -- is 20. However, if everyone's driving para-tanks while I keep driving my compact car, then my risk level rises to 60, due to aforementioned physics. Now, if I join everyone, then my risk level falls to 40, so I'm safer. But compare to the initial case, I'm still less safe. Hence the prisoner's dilemma.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#318

Post by codalan »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #265
codalan wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the Maverick (as others have mentioned) is that they squander valuable bed space by adding a cab to the design. To me, a pickup truck is a pretty utilitarian thing. I don't need a cab. I have other vehicles if I need to take passengers. I remember pricing out a pickup a few years ago, and it was hard to find one that wasn't already configured with a cab. I guess the market demand is larger for people…

used Cargo van

Yeah, the Sprinter or some of the other clones come to mind.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#319

Post by llanowarelves »

jjoonathan wrote: post #314
llanowarelves wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you on that component of it existing. The thing about policy is usually somebody big is warning the public ahead of time that the "affordable healthcare bill" (for another example) isn't actually affordable healthcare (it's mandated health insurance), get called debby-downers/negative/hateful, and then it happens that way anyway due to lawmaker and corp PR pushing it through while everyone else…

It's fascinating that you think this has to do with the spirit of the bill at the same time as you list off the forces holding that spirit captive. You didn't reason yourself into this position, so I don't think you'll be reasoned out of it.

Ok, without resorting to insulting you as you are me, according to you, is the 10th Amendment a loophole or not?

More generally, are people doing things because they aren't stopped from doing so a loophole or not?

Are loopholes a feature or a bug? Does it depend on intentions or how it's used to be called this, or not?

More importantly, why don't judges tend to rule in the "spirit of the law" over what's actually the law, if that's so obviously the thing that should matter the most? Are you willing to sign contracts with me on that basis? And see which philosophy wins? Or do you just want to complain and show your disapproval of me?

There's how things are and how they "should" be and simply describing it in terms of a constellation of competing actors and overlapping interests at different layers and forces that motivate them (not always easy to tell, and I've already left open and taken into account the whole spectrum of characterizations: intentional v not, malicious v not, passive v active. I have my own not-strongly held opinion on the car one while acknowledging all of that) means I'm not reasoning (unlike you). Got it.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#320

Post by adrr »

deelowe wrote: post #52
nyx wrote: post #29

The 25-year import rule here, which bans Americans from importing vehicles from other countries unless they're 25+ years old, is just awful for those of us who would be interested in driving small, efficient foreign cars. It would be great to live completely car-free, but absent major changes to how we plan our cities, it's just a sad reality that cars are a necessary ingredient to life in the vast majority of Americ…

That rule ain't changing unfortunately. Regulatory capture is STRONG with automotive and the US sees it as a matter of national security (car makers would be pivoted to other ares in times of war).

You can import a car that meets US requirements. Just do European delivery on a Porsche or Mercedes.
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