There's something off about LED bulbs • Hacker News Board

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#311

Post by sgc » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #162

DougN7 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just an anecdote, but I’ve had multiple “10 year” LED bulbs fail after just a year or two. I suspect much of the claims for these bulbs are theoretical as they just don’t hold up, probably for reasons the grandparent poster is pointing out.

I have too. I have significantly more in my 11-year-old renovation that are still working. That's just the way statistics work. A lot of this topic smells like typical geek snobbery. They're lights, folks. Cheap consumer products have always been cheap. Halogen bulbs suck too.

I have had at least 10 bulbs die on me within months, while others have lasted much longer, but the average lifespan on bulbs in our house can't be over 18 months. So I don't think people are complaining to be snobs, just noting that led bulbs don't last nearly as long as claimed. I have no idea why you needed to fall into personal attacks rather than concluding that bulbs readily available 11 years ago might be made better than those readily available now, and that most led bulbs are a lot newer than yours.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#312

Post by beebeepka » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #228

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #150

I hate how many of these things aren't limits of the technology but rather the result of cost optimization and general apathy towards the customer. We know how to mass-produce quality LEDs to the point entire TVs are made of the things. We know how to mass-produce rectifiers pretty much ever since diodes existed. We know how to cool mass-produced objects in compact spaces. But because we apparently can't have nice th…

You can go buy high CRI, high quality bulbs right now. Nothing is stopping you. Here is one common vendor: https://store.waveformlighting.com/collections/a19-bulbs/ The issue isn’t that MBAs have cost reduced bulbs for no reason. The issue is that 95% of consumers will only choose the cheap bulbs, period. As a result, that’s what gets produced at scale. > We know how to mass-produce quality LEDs to the point entire T…

> White LEDs are optimized for full, smooth spectrums.

I thought full spectrum LEDs are future tech because I haven't seen one.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#313

Post by wankle » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

https://www.stouchlighting.com/blog/light-comparison-led-lig....

"New LEDs can last 50,000 to 100,000 hours or more. The typical lifespan for an incandescent bulb, by comparison, is 1-5% as long at best (roughly 1,200 hours)."

I've never seen more than 15000 hours from an LED bulb at best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb

"The chart below lists values of luminous efficacy and efficiency for some general service, 120-volt, 1000-hour lifespan incandescent bulb"

I spent most of my life in incandescent bulb lighting and rarely remember changing a light bulb. LED bulbs I can remember changing multiple times in the last few years since we started using them.

It's almost like there's a conspiracy to convince consumers incandescent lighting didn't last long which is odd given the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light#:~:text=The%2....

"The Centennial Light is the world's longest-lasting light bulb, burning since 1901, and almost never turned off."

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#314

Post by stasmo » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 3:30 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #133

LED bulbs suck. CFLs suck. The light is poor and though they cost an order of magnitude more than incandescents did, they are built so cheaply that they don't last any longer. And they qualify as hazardous waste when they need to be disposed of. At times I've seriously considered trying oil lamps. The only LED bulbs I buy now are the "filament" types. Their bulbs are filled with helium so heat transfer is good, and t…

It feels weird to me to see this kind of comment on HN. I’m sure somewhere out there on the internet there are people complaining that computers suck because they bought a few cheap computers and didn’t have a good experience, so they’re assuming all computers are bad.

Without any sort of detail about what brand or what it was used for and why it was a bad experience, it’s really not adding anything to the conversation. It’s just a blanket judgement on a technology that has a great deal of variation and options and uses.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#315

Post by zaroth » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 3:30 PM UTC

browningstreet wrote: post #304

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go buy high CRI, high quality bulbs right now. Nothing is stopping you. Here is one common vendor: https://store.waveformlighting.com/collections/a19-bulbs/ The issue isn’t that MBAs have cost reduced bulbs for no reason. The issue is that 95% of consumers will only choose the cheap bulbs, period. As a result, that’s what gets produced at scale. > We know how to mass-produce quality LEDs to the point entire T…

As consumers are we really supposed to do a ton of research on light bulbs and accept that we can't run down to Home Depot and get some new bulbs when they go out in our house?

If you want nice things that engineers spent thousands of hours researching, designing, and tuning, you can do the research to find those brands and pay extra for them.

Most people don’t want to pay the premium and don’t value the benefits that come with that premium.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#316

Post by organsnyder » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 3:30 PM UTC

droopyEyelids wrote: post #285

organsnyder wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my garage+office was built a few years ago, the electrician used a bunch of faux-recessed LED fixtures (the brand name is "I Can't Believe It's Not Recessed!", which is certainly memorable). They surface-mount over standard ceiling junction boxes, but appear similar to recessed lights once installed. We have ~20 of these fixtures, both interior and exterior. They're quiet, flicker-free, and have a great dimming…

The faux-recessed LED fixtures are a really interesting case because they're either going to be the most reliable LED in your house, or one of the least! This is because heat is the LED diode killer (as well as the power supplies driving the diodes) Can lights have historically been an issue for insulation of houses, as they provide a channel for the warm ceiling air to enter the plenum space between floors or the at…

Absolutely! The faux-recessed lights made it a ton easier to do air-sealing, which is now essential to pass mandatory blower-door tests.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#317

Post by bobbyasdfasdf7 » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 3:30 PM UTC

wankle wrote: post #313

https://www.stouchlighting.com/blog/light-comparison-led-lig... . "New LEDs can last 50,000 to 100,000 hours or more. The typical lifespan for an incandescent bulb, by comparison, is 1-5% as long at best (roughly 1,200 hours)." I've never seen more than 15000 hours from an LED bulb at best. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb "The chart below lists values of luminous efficacy and efficiency for some…

[dead]

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#318

Post by organsnyder » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 3:31 PM UTC

meepmorp wrote: post #211

organsnyder wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been installing Kauf brand smart-bulbs, which come pre-flashed with ESPHome for integration with Home Assistant. Some of my earlier bulbs failed, and I recently noticed that the founder of the company commented on the issue and said he specced a more robust capacitor after early failures: https://github.com/KaufHA/kauf-rgbww-bulbs/issues/31#issueco... I haven't contacted them for replacements yet, but seeing the…

Thanks! Having flashed esphome to smartbulbs the hard way, ootb support sounds lovely.

Aside from the quality issues with that first batch, they've been great.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#319

Post by DubiousPusher » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 3:31 PM UTC

browningstreet wrote: post #304

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go buy high CRI, high quality bulbs right now. Nothing is stopping you. Here is one common vendor: https://store.waveformlighting.com/collections/a19-bulbs/ The issue isn’t that MBAs have cost reduced bulbs for no reason. The issue is that 95% of consumers will only choose the cheap bulbs, period. As a result, that’s what gets produced at scale. > We know how to mass-produce quality LEDs to the point entire T…

As consumers are we really supposed to do a ton of research on light bulbs and accept that we can't run down to Home Depot and get some new bulbs when they go out in our house?

You could ask that question about every consumer product since the 90s.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#320

Post by gjsman-1000 » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 3:31 PM UTC

wankle wrote: post #313

https://www.stouchlighting.com/blog/light-comparison-led-lig... . "New LEDs can last 50,000 to 100,000 hours or more. The typical lifespan for an incandescent bulb, by comparison, is 1-5% as long at best (roughly 1,200 hours)." I've never seen more than 15000 hours from an LED bulb at best. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb "The chart below lists values of luminous efficacy and efficiency for some…

> I've never seen more than 15000 hours from an LED bulb at best.

With the LED bulbs at our home (many of which have failed!), the problem is always the inverter. They just start flickering wildly and inconsistently one day, which is never pleasant, and they need to be replaced. It's frustrating because when the LEDs have stable power, they can produce just as much brightness as before, but their integrated power-conversion circuitry sucks in reliability.