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GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

lukebechtel.com

311–320 of 338 posts

Re: GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

#311
post #197

GTP is interesting enough without people pretending that it is more interesting than it is. This "new programming language" doesn't look new at all. It looks like the same old thing.

That is true for most "new" human produced.programming languages too. The pool of truly novel programming languages is extremely shallow. Even the number of languages bringing anything new to the table is very limited. So, it doesn't really tell us much ( either direction)

Unlike languages invented in the 1960s, today's new languages seem to basically recycle ideas from existing languages while attempting to fix the perceived deficiencies in those languages. This shouldn't be a surprise; any time a new industry arises, most of the truly groundbreaking and novel inventions will be in the beginning, when there's no experience to draw on. Now that programming has been around for the better part of a century, we know a lot about what works and what doesn't.

Re: GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree with that. Like maybe for a toy example to demonstrate what I'm talking about, imagine I was teaching you the addition operation mod 100 and I gave a description of the operation f(x, y) = x + y % 100 for x, y in Z_100. If you take more than 100^2 samples to learn the function, I'm not sure you understand the function. Obviously, in that many samples, you could've just specified a look up table wit…

You're describing over fitting to some look up table. Can't be what's happening here. Because the examples LLMs are answering are well out of bounds of the "100^2" training data. The internet is huge but it's not that huge. One can easily find chatGPT saying, doing or creating things that obviously come from a generalized model. It's actually trivial to find examples of chatGPT answering questions with responses that…

Like yes to some extent there is a mild amount of generalization in that it is not literally regurgitating the internet and it to some extent mixes text really well but I don't think that's obviously the full on generalization of understanding that humans have.

These models obviously are more sample efficient at learning relationships than a literal lookup table but like I've already said: my example was obviously extreme for the purposes of illustration that sample efficiency does seem to matter. If you used 100^2 - 1 samples, I'm still not confident you truly understand the concept. However, if you use 5 samples: I'm pretty sure you've generalized so I was hoping to illustrate a gradient.

I want to reemphasize another portion of my comment: it really does seem that when you step outside of the domain of the internet, the error rates rise dramatically especially when there is completely no analogous situation. Furthermore, the further from the internet samples, the seemingly more likely the error which should not occur if it understood these concepts for the purposes of generalization. Do you have links to examples you'd be willing to discuss?

Many examples I see are directly one of the top results on Google. The more impressive ones mix multiple results with some coherency. Sometimes people ask for something novel but there's a weirdly close parallel on the internet.

For example, people thought Sumplete was a new game but it turned out to be derivative: https://www.neowin.net/news/chatgpt-made-a-browser-puzzle-ga...

I think this isn't as impressive at least towards generalization. It seems to stitch concepts pretty haphazardly like in the novel language above that doesn't seem to respect the description (after all, why use brackets in a supposedly indentation based language). However, many languages do use brackets. It seems to suggest it correlates probable answers rather than reasons.

Re: GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ideas I'm expressing have merit -- but are they wholly original? I think the difference is that your intention is to write sentences which you think and believe are correct and which can help other people understand the subject. Chatbot has no intentions of its own, it only imitates texts it has read from the internet. As far as it is concerned they might be totally wrong. You on the other hand have the ability…

I'm not sure I can support the idea that the agent doesn't have the ability to reason -- try to give it any complex (text-based) puzzle you can think of and it'll do just about as well as an average person, oftentimes much better. And I think you may be wrong to say the chatbot doesn't have intentions -- it's intentions based on its training are to accurately predict the next character. It doesn't care in the same wa…

You say > it's intentions based on its training are to accurately predict the next character.

then you say: > these agents do have desires that are analogous to our own

I think its very in-human to have a single desire which is to predict the next character. That is not analogous to our desires.

And the intention to predict the next character is not the intention of the chatbot, it is the intention of whoever created the chatbot or whoever is using it for that purpose.

AI is a tool created by humans to fulfill the intentions of those humans.

Is it the intention of a gun to kill people? No, it is the intention of whichever human who uses a gun for such a purpose. Is it the intention of AI to predict the next character? No that is the intention of the human who uses AI for such a purpose.

Re: GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

#314

Where is the generated compiler and the semantic and syntactic specification for it? Those chatbot-comments feel more like a discussion of a fictional programming language, not a language it actually "created". What does it mean to create a programming language? I think it means you must specify its syntax, its semantics, and then create a compiler or interpreter for it which allows us to test that the compiler or in…

Writing a compiler or a detailed specification is the “easy” part - it’s just raw slog. The hard part of making a programming language is coming up with novel ideas that fit together into coherent whole: inventing something new and useful.

> hard part of making a programming language is coming up with novel ideas that fit together into coherent whole

I don't think anybody's claiming that this chatbot actually came up with novel ideas which fit together into a coherent whole. Are they?

And we don't know if the novel ideas --if any-- fit together into a coherent whole until we have a compiler that allows us to test in practice how well those ideas fit together. If creating the compiler for such a new language with new ideas was the easy part I think somebody would have done that already. The AI would have done that if it was the easy part. Just ask it to do it.

I say proof is in the pudding.

Re: GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

#315
post #183

Where is the generated compiler and the semantic and syntactic specification for it? Those chatbot-comments feel more like a discussion of a fictional programming language, not a language it actually "created". What does it mean to create a programming language? I think it means you must specify its syntax, its semantics, and then create a compiler or interpreter for it which allows us to test that the compiler or in…

This!! All the gushing over these GPTs doing what looks to me like, a bad job of talking smart without actually doing anything, make me feel like I'm going insane, or I'm the only sane person left.

I feel the same way. I wonder what makes people so easily believe the hype, and spread more hype along the way. What happened to Metaverse? Web3? BlockChain?

Just like yesterday I get on my knees and pray, we won't get fooled again -The Who

Re: GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

#316
post #293
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can ask ChatGPT to show it's working too. It's likely, for many things, (as it is with humans a lot of the time) that the way it does it when it walks you through the process is entirely different to how it does it when it just spits out an answer, but it does work. E.g. I asked it a lot of questions about the effects of artificial gravity using a rotating habitat a few days ago, and had it elaborate a lot of the…

Maybe we're getting close to what makes me doubt the utility of LLMs. Much like humans, they are quick to employ System 1 instead of System 2. Unlike humans, their System 1 is so well trained it has a response for almost everything, so it doesn't have a useful heuristic for engaging System 2.

For me the utility is here today. Even if I have to carefully probe and check the responses there are still plenty of things where it's worth it to me to use it right now.

Re: GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

#317
post #169
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. We've been great at building AI in software, but hardware is still absolutely lacking. Robots are nowhere near usable for even simple tasks, at least if they don't follow the same pattern each time. Just look at households, there's still no robot that can empty a dishwasher reliably (unless maybe you build a specialized one for just that task), while it's a task much simpler than what GPT-4 can perform on…

I read somewhere that two dishwashers are the solution. Put dirty dishes in one and pick clean from another one. Then switch roles. No robot needed

Dishwashers were just an unimportant example. Construction, retail and logistics are examples where there's a lot of very simple tasks that robots cannot perform and that pay very poorly.

Re: GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

#318

Last year, when Blake Lemoine was fired by Google for claiming his AI was sentient, a lot of people on this website sensibly noted that the danger of these chatbots was not that they were sentient, but that average people could easily be tricked into thinking that they were. And now here we are: it seems we tech people are every bit as susceptible to this kind of thinking as the average joes we looked down on. Actual…

I would provocatively say that GPT-4 is the stupid sentient being's idea of an intelligent sentient being.

Re: GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

#319

Last year, when Blake Lemoine was fired by Google for claiming his AI was sentient, a lot of people on this website sensibly noted that the danger of these chatbots was not that they were sentient, but that average people could easily be tricked into thinking that they were. And now here we are: it seems we tech people are every bit as susceptible to this kind of thinking as the average joes we looked down on. Actual…

> Actually look at this “language” that GPT-4 has written: it’s just a mishmash of features from the most commonly blogged-about existing programming languages. It has no conceptual insights, no original ideas, no taste that isn’t cribbed from one of the few languages it’s copying from.

On the one hand, I agree.

On the other hand, I see some variant of this comment on HN about every new language, so...

Re: GPT-4 Designed a Programming Language

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I can support the idea that the agent doesn't have the ability to reason -- try to give it any complex (text-based) puzzle you can think of and it'll do just about as well as an average person, oftentimes much better. And I think you may be wrong to say the chatbot doesn't have intentions -- it's intentions based on its training are to accurately predict the next character. It doesn't care in the same wa…

You say > it's intentions based on its training are to accurately predict the next character. then you say: > these agents do have desires that are analogous to our own I think its very in-human to have a single desire which is to predict the next character. That is not analogous to our desires. And the intention to predict the next character is not the intention of the chatbot, it is the intention of whoever created…

Clearly, having a single life desire and nothing else is in-human, I completely agree!

The full quote was > but you could make a case (and it will be made in courts in the next few years, I don't doubt) that these agents do have desires analogous to our own

Analogous doesn't mean "the same" it means "somehow similar."

However I would challenge you to consider more specifically why this type of desire is different from our own desires. Besides the biological machinery, what makes this type of desire different from ours?

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