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OpenAI is now everything it promised not to be: closed-source and for-profit

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Re: OpenAI is now everything it promised not to be: closed-source and for-profit

#311
post #289
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was no other end state for it. I agree, but I am curious and have a question for the less cynical: how could it have gone another way? How does one run a company that requires surviving in a harsh market that avoids these seeming inevitabilities? And in the case of the people running it, what made you think it would be different from their other ventures?

?

Any cursory glance at their funding streams makes it pretty obvious how the underlying business incentives express themselves.

This isn't an "all companies are bad" argument, it's a "duh, that's how business works" argument. If your founding team is full of VCs and they decide they need to pay top wages using other VCs' money, well, maybe you can take it from there.

Re: OpenAI is now everything it promised not to be: closed-source and for-profit

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately all of those have their own ethical issues, commercial corruption is not the only challenge to well-intentioned initiatives when meeting scale.

What is your point? That moderation issues or bias fights in some articles are equivalent to the concept of Wikipedia being proprietary?

No, my point was that the examples given are not free of significant problems - which generally seem to emerge at scale. I'm an admirer of all the projects named (also OpenAI) in principle, despite their flaws.

Re: OpenAI is now everything it promised not to be: closed-source and for-profit

#313
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI, if successful, will likely become the most valuable company in the history of the planet, both past and future.

Really? I feel like they'll go the way of Docker, but faster: Right now super hot, nice tools/API, great PR. But it's build on open and known foundations, soon GPTs will be commodity and then something easier/better FOSS will arise. It may take some time (2-3 years?) but this scenario seems most likely to me. Edit: Ah didn't get the "reference", perhaps indeed it will be the last of the tech companies ever indeed, at…

Possible. Coding as we know it might get obsolete. And it is a trillion dollar industry.

Re: OpenAI is now everything it promised not to be: closed-source and for-profit

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are following the Residential Real Estate Developer Playbook, always name your for profit exploitation project after the beautiful organic thing you destroyed to pave the way for it... Examples Whispering pines, Blue Heron Bay, OpenAI

Hadn’t OpenAI published all the key research results to repro ChatGPT? And made their model available to literally everyone? And contributed more than anyone else to AI alignment/safety? To me it looks like nearly every other player, including open source projects are there for short term fame and profit, while it’s the OpenAI that is playing the long game of AI alignment.

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Re: OpenAI is now everything it promised not to be: closed-source and for-profit

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate, what is "the AI apocalypse"? Is it just a symbolic metaphor or is there any scientific research behind this words? For me it's rather more unpredictable toxic environment we observe in the world currently, dominated by purely human-made destructive decisions, often based on purely animal instincts.

Without AI control loss: Permanent dictatorship by whoever controls AI. With AI control loss: AI converts the atoms of the observable universe to maximally achieve whatever arbitrary goal it thinks it was given. These are natural conclusions that can be drawn from the implied abilities of a superintelligent entity.

> whatever arbitrary goal it thinks it was given [...] abilities of a superintelligent entity

Don't these two phrases contradict each other? Why would a super-intelligent entity need to be given a goal? The old argument that we'll fill the universe with staplers pretty much assumes and requires the entity NOT to be super-intelligent. An AGI would only became one when it gets the ability to formulate its own goals, I think. Not that it helps much if that goal is somehow contrary to the existence of the human race, but if the goal is self-formulated, then there's a sliver of hope that it can be changed.

> Permanent dictatorship by whoever controls AI.

And that is honestly frightening. We know for sure that there are ways of speaking, writing, or showing things that are more persuasive than others. We've been perfecting the art of convincing others to do what we want them to do for millennia. We got quite good at it, but as with everything human, we lack rigor and consistence in that, even the best speeches are uneven in their persuasive power.

An AI trained for transforming simple prompts into a mapping of demographic to what will most likely convince that demographic to do what's prompted doesn't need to be an AGI. It doesn't even need to be much smarter than it already is. Whoever implements it first will most likely first try to convince everyone that all AI is bad (other than their own) and if they succeed, the only way to change the outcome would be a time machine or mental disorders.

(Armchair science-fiction reader here, pure speculation without any facts, in case you wondered :))

Re: OpenAI is now everything it promised not to be: closed-source and for-profit

#317
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seriously doubt it - what they are doing, others can do - and if they start generating a lot of revenue, it will attract competition - lots of it. They don't have a moat big enough that many millions of dollars can't defeat.

What if they have an internal ChatGPTzero , training and reprogramming itself, iterating at inhuman speed? A headstart in an exponential is a moat. It surely will have huge blindspots (and people do too), but perhaps it will be good enough for self-improvement... or will be soon.

It's a fundamentally different problem. AlphaZero (DeepMind) was able to be trained this way because it was setup with an explicit reward function and end condition. Competitive self-play needs a reward function.

It can't just "self-improve towards general intelligence".

What's the fitness function of intelligence?

Re: OpenAI is now everything it promised not to be: closed-source and for-profit

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what GP is saying is that success of OpenAI means making a lot of profit, and then triggering the AI apocalypse - which is how they become most valuable company in history both past and future .

Can you elaborate, what is "the AI apocalypse"? Is it just a symbolic metaphor or is there any scientific research behind this words? For me it's rather more unpredictable toxic environment we observe in the world currently, dominated by purely human-made destructive decisions, often based on purely animal instincts.

>> Is it just a symbolic metaphor or is there any scientific research behind this words?

Of course there is. See (Cameron, 1984) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminator)

Re: OpenAI is now everything it promised not to be: closed-source and for-profit

#319
post #291
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall the FSF being pretty adamant that a license restricting commercial use would be a non-free license by default.

Yep the OSI’s position is that FOSS is free labor for SaaS and giant corporations. Look at who funds the OSI and I think there is a clear case of capture here. SaaS is the least free model for software. Closed source commercial is far more open and free than SaaS.

Yes, it is important to understand that using open-source software in a commercial SaaS is immoral.

However, it should be noted that it applies only to open-source projects that were created by billion-dollar startups like Mongo or Elastic. Using software like Apache, Linux or Postgres is totally fine because it doesn't deprive SV startups (that are so precious to HN) of additional profits.

Re: OpenAI is now everything it promised not to be: closed-source and for-profit

#320
post #70

The only way this kind of research could be done "in the open" is if it was funded by taxpayers' money. Except we have global corporations with elite fiscal layer teams, but no global government (giant lizzards are always disappointing) - so some global corporation was going to own it in the end, it was a matter of "time" and "US or Chinese". The time is now, he winner is US. Moving on. The next move is for (some) go…

https://huggingface.co/bigscience/bloom open-source and funded by the French government

It is more open than most of the competition. The “ethical” licensing they opted for however makes them incompatible with both FLOSS and open science definitions of open. Models that are open and true to the name would for example be GPT-J.
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