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Let Teenagers Sleep

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#311

Post by mjfl »

ajmurmann wrote: post #216
SoftTalker wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private sports outside of school are too expensive for all but the well-off families. School sports are basically free for the participants, and they are good for kids' social development and physical health. Sports keeps many kids in high school, certainly if my oldest hadn't had cross-country and track he probably would have dropped out.

That's another difference between Europe and the US. When I grew up in Germany there was a huge amount of sports available that were taught by volunteers. Soccer, judo, karate all for free even in the rural area I grew up in. I wonder if it's possible because everyone isn't constantly threatened by looming bankruptcy if they don't save big piles of cash.

The parent comment was a little misleading. In the US there is a ton of sports available for every student to join. Really the only people who don't play sports are those who don't want to.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#312

Post by wintogreen74 »

NullPrefix wrote: post #251
fosk wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be two categorizations for students: highly creative students should be placed on a different path to adulthood, everybody else could use the current system. Highly creative people are more likely to be successful dropouts. To force highly creative people into this routine, is dictatorship of the mind. That's how it was for me. Edit: I upset the academics :)

Do you suppose there should be a test to get into the creatives path? Because every kid will want to be there

Isn't this how we somehow (per|con)verted "likes computers" into STEAM? Everybody deserves to participate!

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#313

Post by nerdponx »

mcv wrote: post #297

> Teenagers need about nine hours of sleep a night—but they get closer to seven. Mine isn't doing too badly then, I guess. He usually goes to bed way too late in my opinion, after 10 pm, sometimes 11 pm. But he comes out of bed just before 8, so that still adds up to 9-10 hours of sleep. 8:30 is the normal school start time around here, and he can bike there in about 15 minutes. The article doesn't go into what the s…

I remember by high school bus always picked me up before 7. I think my first class started a little before 8.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#314

Post by enragedcacti »

sushisource wrote: post #240
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

What a completely absurd and nonsense take. Where does this "purpose" get decided? Some secret cabal that controls the education system? Insane. There are some flaws in our education system that are likely the result of the fact that it is huge, serves an incredibly diverse set of people, and thus is a very complex and difficult to manage system. There's no secret back room of evil people controlling the populace via…

I don't endorse the GPs view in totality, but I don't think its necessary to have some secret cabal deciding things in order to have a discussion about the 'purpose' of complex social systems. taking just the example in the OP, parents need to go to work from 9 to 5 to feed their family, so they need their kids to be in school sooner than that so they can get them out the door, so they go to school board meetings and make sure that the start time stays early. No one shadowy is making this decision, its the result of a consistent failure to address the root causes and orient the system towards its intended purpose as part of a larger social system.

If I start living in my van to renovate my house, but I never call any contractors or work on it myself, how long is it before I just become a guy who lives in a van? In the same sense as the van, sets of institutions that aren't subject to constant maintenance and orientation towards their purpose evolve to fill whatever broken niche exists by way of stochastic individual action.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#316

Post by stonogo »

worstestes wrote: post #300
stonogo wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safer than, say, Baltimore, which uses the same system?

Ah yes, Baltimore, the epitome of public transportation infrastructure

Way to shoot down an argument nobody was making. OP referred to safe, which Baltimore isn't, and yet kids take the public buses as the primary transit to and from school all over the city for the past several decades.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#317

Post by runarberg »

xster wrote: post #290
SoftTalker wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private sports outside of school are too expensive for all but the well-off families. School sports are basically free for the participants, and they are good for kids' social development and physical health. Sports keeps many kids in high school, certainly if my oldest hadn't had cross-country and track he probably would have dropped out.

Sorry if it's an ignorant question since my kid hasn't reached sports age yet. But athleticism doesn't seem like it should be an optional choice that detracts from other educational resources. Why not make it mandatory, 1h a day for everyone? Saves on travel, saves on transition time, saves on economy of scale and it's more equitable since everyone pays through taxes and everyone benefits in the short term (more pare…

I think most schools have physical education, which is pretty much just mandatory exercises. After-school sports are more about culture and competition then exercise. Not everyone is competitive, and it could be really damaging for some kids to be forced into a competitive environment they don’t enjoy. It is much better to allow kids to choose whether they would rather participate in other non-competitive cultural activities after school (such as the theater, hacking, anime drawing, gardening, or whatever)

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#318

Post by kelseyfrog »

tptacek wrote: post #119
flandish wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If.. uhh… society wasn’t so capitalistically expensive as to require the entire household’s adults to work, a lot of these logistical concerns would work out. Resulting in smarter and healthier children. But: smart and healthy children demand wages as adults that cut into shareholder profits…

Plenty of families that don't need two incomes have two working parents; parents work because work is fulfilling.

Both parents work because prices adjust to demand.

That is, if both parents work, prices can rise because demand rises (remember demand is the desire to buy, but also the ability to pay). When prices rise, this puts an even greater pressure on single income families. ie: their single income has to be stretched father because they are competing with two income demand. This is economics 101.

While two incomes increases the spending abilities of the household relative to single income households, it comes with the additional instability of the household depending on both incomes (perhaps they purchase a larger home that requires both incomes to support) while exposing the household to the increased risk of either one of them being fired or laid off.

This is a well-studied phenomenon beyond the interpretation that "work is fulfilling."

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#319

Post by cmrdporcupine »

gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

Sounds very American, but here in Canada (and many other western countries) we have the same awful hours but without the same insane level of obsession with school sports as in the US. So I dunno, doesn't sound fully explanatory.
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