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The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#311

Post by yodsanklai »

nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

> I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process.

Spoiler: it won't get easier :)

I'm sure everyone has a different experience, but I find professional life to be much harder than being a student, even a student preparing for very selective admission process. You often work as hard as an adult (if not harder), plus have more responsibilities.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#312

Post by commandlinefan »

zabzonk wrote: post #219
Jun8 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a son who’s a sophomore (15 yo, second year in HS) and this comment absolutely rings true. He fences competitively (2 HR training four times a week plus a few hrs with physical therapist) and his life pretty much consists of school, homework and sports. He has to be at school at 7:45am so gets up around 6am, goes to bed around 11am usually, so much for the 8 hrs of sleep per night! And he hasn’t even started t…

11 pm to 7 am (say) looks like 8 hours sleep to me. why does he _have_ to do anything you say he _has_ to do?

Not OP, but I think I get what you mean - my own son, who just started college, went through the same grind and honestly had been on it since elementary school. So technically, no, nobody has to do this stuff, and in reality there's a low ROI for most of it. My son (chose to) do a lot of extracurriculars to fluff up his college application in the hopes of getting into an MIT or a Stanford... and still didn't get in. He could have gotten away with doing a lot less than he did and still would have ended up in the same (good) state school he ended up in. But kids in affluent areas are surrounded by suggestions that you do have to do this stuff to get into a "good" school, so they get caught up in it.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#313

Post by panzagl »

ipaddr wrote: post #188
mrguyorama wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of them make six figures while browsing HN

Those browsing HN still have sprint deadlines. Browsing HN creates more stress. Or keep online 24 hours or spend the night mentally trying to solve an abstract issue. At 5pm they are done. Different stresses / pressures. How many are learning a new language in their freetime just to keep employed. How many people create side projects to land employment at a coffee shop? To compare employment how many coffee shops tes…

How many developers clock out then go to the second job they need to make rent?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#315

Post by jasmer »

Social media, and more controversially a public orientation towards their 'values' defining their identities, which maybe has roots in some nice thinking and especially in trying to get kids with non-standard identities to not feel bad about it - but which ultimately causes a morass of confusion for all the kids.

I think kids need at least some structure and guidance on social development and this 'chose your own identity' thing is leaving them listless.

We don't become men and women arbitrarily, we grow into those roles with guidance. Given a new 'social convention' towards basically not defining those things, we're seeing a lot of kids fall off the side of the boat.

When you add constant social media into the mix, which reinforces all of these things from peers, other toxic things, life pressures it's all too much. You used to have to 'compete' against kids from HS, now it's a national competition.

I can't fathom how hard it is just to be a regular kid.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#316

Post by commandlinefan »

1234letshaveatw wrote: post #121
ok_dad wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we want a healthier society, we need to take a step back and give teenagers a chance to actually live life. We (American here) need to take a step back and let everyone enjoy life. That means providing healthcare, food, and shelter to every single person so that they can live their life and work in a non-anxiety-inducing way. Every therapist I've talked to in the past few years has told me that they think the nu…

right, teen kids are so worried about healthcare costs! Gimmie a break, your comment has nothing to do with the article, it's low effort and a better fit for reddit

Well, in fairness, OP is right: everybody would be under a lot less stress if all of their needs were met for the entirety of their lives with no expectation to ever contribute anything. He's missing the realization that somebody has to contribute something to meet the needs of all the people whose needs are being met regardless of their contribution, which is why communism always fails in practice.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#317

Post by monknomo »

anigbrowl wrote: post #151
paulmd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm honestly appalled by the pervasive tendency to rely on repetition of cliches in favor of original communication, for example. Shaka, when the walls fell ;) honestly there's an interesting argument to be made there that memes and cliches provide a higher symbol density to our communications via shared context/subtext. A meme has additional layers of context and nuance that are implicitly carried along with the a…

Temba; his arms wide. I agree with all of this, and I'm fond of memes myself. They are definitely an important sense-making tool. But there's a distinction that I can't quite articulate, between memes as shared shorthand, and cliches that are actually reflexes or performative gestures, but are meant to be processed by the recipient as original communication. As an extreme example, I used to know someone who was quite…

maybe the difference between a meme and a thought terminating cliche?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#318

Post by officeplant »

matwood wrote: post #251
mouse_ wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee most of these "high achieving high anxiety types" live with significantly less anxiety than customer service reps/bag handlers/food service workers.

I've done waiting/service type jobs. For me, the stress during the work period was way higher than anything in my software/business jobs. But, every night when I got off work, the stress was immediately gone. That shift was over, and the tomorrow really was new day. With my office jobs the max stress is lower, but it also never really goes away.

This is it. I never took home stress from any previous job until I got an office job. (AutoCAD Draftsman for Fire/Gas Industrial systems).

My life as a radioshack wage slave began and ended when I clocked in and out. If something was fucked when we left the previous night that was tomorrows problem. It's retail, no one is being paid enough to truly care.

Doing contract work for engineers who are willfully ignorant of fire code causes me lasting stress in my soul.

Either way the biggest stress is still financial and I'll stop stressing about that when I'm dead.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#319

Post by snozolli »

1234letshaveatw wrote: post #121
ok_dad wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we want a healthier society, we need to take a step back and give teenagers a chance to actually live life. We (American here) need to take a step back and let everyone enjoy life. That means providing healthcare, food, and shelter to every single person so that they can live their life and work in a non-anxiety-inducing way. Every therapist I've talked to in the past few years has told me that they think the nu…

right, teen kids are so worried about healthcare costs! Gimmie a break, your comment has nothing to do with the article, it's low effort and a better fit for reddit

teen kids are so worried about healthcare costs!

a better fit for reddit

Funny you should say that, since Reddit is packed with teens and the front page subs are pretty full of anxiety over healthcare and the environment.

Teens today are absolutely flooded with horror stories that they have zero authority or meaningful ability to change.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#320

Post by ndriscoll »

nineplay wrote: post #221
nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

I agree that this is a serious issue. I know 3 kids who graduated in 2019 and got into top universities. Three years later -- One flatly refused to leave home despite a lot of pushing from their parents. They are working at the local theater and taking community college courses here and there with no real future plans or goals -- One also decided to go to CC, with her parent's support this time. She's 21, just got ma…

> I don't want to look down on women who wish to become SAHMs, but I think it's terribly short-sighted to make that decision at 21 and give up on pursuing a "real" career.

Certainly it requires a lot of trust and commitment, but I wouldn't call it short-sighted. It's risky, but if you do find a good spouse, it's not like you're missing out on anything (my wife is a SAHM and has never had nor wanted a career).

To me people that go to grad school and take on tons of debt, only to be in a position to try to start having kids in their late 30s/early 40s seem a lot more short-sighted. I watched some consumer interviews while I was at my last employer. The market segment we were interviewing were very high achieving people, but some of them were 38+ and saying they're thinking about having kids soon; there's like a 25% chance that ship has already sailed, even ignoring the reality of being almost 60 when they graduate from high school.

I suppose it comes down to knowing what you want out of life and what will bring you satisfaction with the time you've got.

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