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The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

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Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rather think our house is pretty optimal for this given where we live. Slab on grade in socal, where AC is more of a concern than heating.

In Southern California I guess you don’t need heat at all, right? Apparently it only gets down to 42F over there so the pipes won’t even get hurt, let alone the people, who have built in thermoregulation.

We definitely have heat, and this year it's been especially cold. For the last 8 years I've lived here, most winters we only use it a single month, and even then it's rare.

This winter has been the exception.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the contractors who like to talk about the good old days are simply spreading FUD. New homes will hold up better a hundred years from now, and have a much lower chance of catching on fire, collapsing in an earthquake, and are less harmful to the planet since they use a fraction of the energy. - Old windows from 100 years ago were single pane. I grew up with them. My bedroom was freezing cold in the winter and…

> Old windows from 100 years ago were single pane. Yes but you can (and should) weatherstrip them. Fully integrated weather stripping and storm windows will solve the problems you're addressing. Yes still lower R-value but old homes are leaky and putting in modern windows won't save you much in these instances. > New homes will hold up better a hundred years from now Most won't. My home is over 100 years old and I'm…

> Most won't. My home is over 100 years old and I'm 100% positive it will outlast 90% of modern construction put up today 100 years from now. I've seen my house gutted in many places and it's pristine. I've seen many 20 year old homes that are full of mold and rot.

One of the main problems with modern houses is that they go to shit very quickly if they're ever unoccupied for a while. They need heating and cooling (especially the dehumidifying effect of AC) or they'll require extensive repairs and renovation within a year or two. Saw tons of these when looking at houses after the '08 bust—some of the bigger banks let houses sit for a couple years without even trying to sell them, and they inevitably had major visible mold problems, and probably a lot more going on inside the walls.

It's the sealing differences that do it. Modern houses are built to be super-tightly-sealed, but that means they have (at least seasonal) moisture problems without an active HVAC system. Older houses were built to breathe. Modern materials also aren't built or installed with major seasonal temp swings in mind, so you'll get things like badly-cracking drywall seams, buckling trim, buckling floors, fucked-up doorframes, and so on, due to thermal expansion and contraction. Even intricate, tight woodwork in very-old houses was crafted to survive that kind of thing (it had to be).

Not that older houses don't get into trouble without maintenance, but it takes longer and serious problems pretty much require a roof or wall breach. Modern houses will fall apart while the roof and exterior walls are totally fine.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#313
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My logic is the entitled fucks that vote for this policy should be made to eat their own medicine. Either it's OK to have a house without the safety criteria in the code, or it isn't. Forcing them to eat their own medicine would allow the youth to also have the chance to build a house, even if it's not perfectly safe, closer to the cost their parents had to spend. Rather than changing the game and screwing over new e…

By the same logic, all the houses built in the earthquake zones of San Francisco and LA should also be raised. I've noticed that there has been mass hysteria in some California-centric websites that flood insurance must be provided by the Federal government in Florida, but not that earthquake insurance must be provided by the Federal government in California. Botton line, the private sector doesn't handle this type o…

Generational vs 5-10X Generation events should not be treated the same.

Soft-story retrofits are a thing and should be expanded with long-term State loans

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#315

CRE guy here. A lot of this "productivity loss" is also due to government related staffing issues and bureaucracy. Most people are describing more complex building codes, so I'll add something new. I had a project that was delayed by over a year during Covid because the city approved incorrect plans, came back and requested revisions, and then lost the physical plans (without us knowing until we checked in asking wha…

State and local governments are, as far as I can tell, simultaneously spending way too much money and are badly understaffed in certain areas. Sometimes even while appearing well-staffed, because there's some bottleneck elsewhere in the system (due to insufficient staffing there) preventing the efforts of an army of other frontline workers from being effective. Like the elevator inspector thing—you may have more than…

>the politicians are constantly trying to weaken or eliminate that, plus trying to mess with your pension which is practically the only attractive thing about those jobs... so, no fucking wonder, really.

>Recent wage inflation has made all this stuff worse by making unresponsive government pay scales far less attractive than market-driven wages elsewhere, so systems and offices that were teetering before are now falling over.

These two are related. The pensions work for government workers because politicians get to advertise low taxes, voters get to enjoy lower taxes and punt the costs to future generations, and union bosses who are older, get to cash out before shit hits the fan (almost all governments have tiers of pensions, where older workers have more benefits than younger will ever have).

The solution is to get rid of ALL deferred compensation. Government pays employees the same as private does. No more muddying the waters with understated liability numbers and underfunding for deferred compensation. Then government can match wages in real time.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shark bite is awesome for capping a broken pipe until you can get around to a proper fix. Love those shark-bite caps. IMO every home owner should have pipe cutters for the pipes in their house (whatever materials those may be), and a set of those caps ready to apply for every size of pipe they've got. Ought to be as common as having a screwdriver and hammer. They're absolute life-savers when a leak or pipe burst happ…

If you've got a significant leak in a supply pipe, there should be a valve on the branch that will allow you to shut off just that branch rather than the whole house. You might need to shut off the whole house first while you figure out where that valve is, but you probably won't have to do ad-hoc plumbing to get most of the house back on. But yes, in general I'm always for people becoming familiar with tools and DIY…

> there should be a valve on the branch that will allow you to shut off just that branch rather than the whole house

Haha...should is doing a lot of work here. Shut off valves like you mention are great, but even newer houses often don't have them.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that the GP's point isnt applicable, and critiquing a statement that was not made . >If, all along, you could have rented it out for more money ... why were you planning to rent it out for less money? ... the original post never said they would rent it out for less money. Nor did it say they would rent it out for more money. They only said the rent required to break even went up. This is clear in the orig…

I think implicit here > This was almost a year delay and added cost overruns, etc. It also made the required rent higher to recoup those costs and try to be profitable (that deal will lose money). is the 'try to be profitable' that implies they did end up raising rent higher than otherwise planned, but you are right that this isn't necessarily true.

thats fair

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shark bite is awesome for capping a broken pipe until you can get around to a proper fix. Love those shark-bite caps. IMO every home owner should have pipe cutters for the pipes in their house (whatever materials those may be), and a set of those caps ready to apply for every size of pipe they've got. Ought to be as common as having a screwdriver and hammer. They're absolute life-savers when a leak or pipe burst happ…

If you've got a significant leak in a supply pipe, there should be a valve on the branch that will allow you to shut off just that branch rather than the whole house. You might need to shut off the whole house first while you figure out where that valve is, but you probably won't have to do ad-hoc plumbing to get most of the house back on. But yes, in general I'm always for people becoming familiar with tools and DIY…

Owned a half-dozen US houses built between 1907 and 2015 and have never actually seen such a thing. If you're lucky someone's done some work on a branch at some point and was courteous enough to install a shut-off, though usually off somewhere weird where there was already damage or whatever, not where you'd normally look for it.

[EDIT] Actually, my parents' very-new house has that... but because it's all-PEX, so it's super-easy to install it that way, with a central panel full of shut-offs for various parts.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#319
post #41
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure this is the right answer and calling this "worker productivity" seems a bit harsh. A "Pretty Good House" (book that was on the front page last week) includes insulation above and below the foundation slab, vapour barriers, double studs to break thermal bridges, complex window installation (again thermal bridges), air exchangers and heat pumps with ducts (or mini-splits). New constructions (for cold zone),…

I have no data to back this observation up, but everyone (especially in the media, but also in corporate life) is attacking "worker productivity" lately. Everyone's got a reason, but when you dig into them they all stink.

>but everyone (especially in the media, but also in corporate life) is attacking "worker productivity" lately

I don't need bar graphs or anything, but can you provide some recent examples you saw? I certainly don't remember seeing articles to that effect recently.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#320
post #4

> number of houses or total square footage built per employee Average house size has probably doubled in the last 50 years. Nail guns can't make up for building code and higher finish work demands. It's not uncommon to see 6 or 7 layers in sheathing today.

I'm remodeling my place right now. You're totally right, the building codes are a lot more complex and there is more 'work' to do as a result. No more just hiding electrical boxes in the walls. Heh. That said, the products being used have improved a lot. Things like PEX tubing for plumbing (instead of copper) and glue on walls for showers (over doing tile work), make some aspects go a lot faster. Edit: Oh, I forgot t…

>Things like PEX tubing for plumbing

PEX is terrible, pretty much every commercial brand has been shown to leech petrochemicals into your water. This varies a lot based on your municipal water supply's characteristics. Unfortunately cleaner water leeches more.

PEX saves megabuilders $$$ and plumbers time, but it's not good for you.

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