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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#311

Post by dlkf »

amw wrote: post #286
dlkf wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? This isn’t how it works. Few people, if any, want to “check out.” What happens is that people are exposed to opiods via one of two channels (they are prescribed painkillers, or they party with someone who has acquired them) and they quickly get hooked because these drugs are cripplingly addictive. So the only “why” questions we have to…

"investigating systems in their totality rather than focusing on isolated interactions within them" is not inherently conspiratorial. It's far weirder to suggest that "more people want to party for no particular reason" or "more doctors prescribe pain meds for no particular reason" than it is to suggest reasons that might contribute (say, "more people are suffering from chronic pain than before as the disparity betwe…

You make a good point regarding incentive structures in pharma - but this is nothing like what OP was saying. OP is asking for a “Frommian psychoanalytic approach,” whatever that is.

Your point about chronic pain increase is totally implausible. Automation of manual labor should result in less chronic pain, not more. The problem here is overprescription, and it’s my fault that my comment didn’t make that clear.

As regards:

> It's far weirder to suggest that "more people want to party for no particular reason"

I never said that. The number of people who want to party and have no foresight has remained constant. But access to opiods (and their normalization) has skyrocketed, due to aforeforementioned over-prescription.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#312

Post by dirtyid »

philwelch wrote: post #272
anigbrowl wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very confusing to me. Criminal drug dealers of course want to lower their costs and maximize repeat business, even if that hurts their customers. But people consume different drugs for different reasons, and I don't see the economic benefit in giving them something orthogonal or opposite to what they're actually looking for, when it would be cheaper and safer to just dilute with some inactive filler material.

A likely explanation is that China is using the cartels to wage a 21st century opium war. (The obvious link to China being that China produces most of the chemical precursors to fentanyl, and until recently produced most of the fentanyl itself.) The average American drug user isn’t the customer; he, or rather his eventual death or disability, is the product.

More parsimonious explanation is that the PRC bureaucracy isn't going to waste resources cracking down on precursor producers for legal medicine ingredients when it doesn't cause domestic issues, or issues in the majority of countries, including other eight nation alliance members that have exploited China far more than the US. Like why wage 21st century opium war against only 1/8 of historic grudges. The primary incentive to assist the US med system driven opiate crisis prior during periods of better relations was because it was politically worthwhile to waste PRC resources to cooperate on US war on drugs. If PRC really wants to be nefarious, she would engineer less lethal drugs that keep victims alive longer to drain more American resources. And she would move back to actual drug production instead of maintaining olive branch precursor production. In so much as working with cartels on state level, IMO PRC benefits more from intelligence / influence of triad + cartel relations as they try to make headway into the Americas. The actual killing Americans is incidental because Americans will reliably find other ways to OD.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#313

Post by Larrikin »

bitL wrote: post #300
schwartzworld wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people get addicted to drugs after being prescribed them following surgery or injury. I know someone this happened to exactly. They gave him a bunch of opiates for pain management and he took them as directed and wound up an addict. I think a lot fewer people "choose" to get addicted to medicine in this way than either you or the GP are implying.

Tell them to take NAD+ boosters like NR or NMN, or even the good old vitamin B3 in large quantities (1g/day). Addiction is often a sign of NAD+/FAD+ depletion in the brain.

You keep posting this over and over again with no source. If addiction to opiates was as simple as taking vitamin B3 and solved easily with the information in an internet comment there would be multiple studies and I suspect all over the news.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#314

Post by DenisM »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

> Variations of this concept are frequently used by drug addicts to justify continued behavior.

Think about it as a policy maker. You have a choice whom to blame - an individual or their environment.

If you blame the individual there is nothing you can do - we can’t change other people.

If you blame the environment now there’s something you can do. You can try to reduce supply by making it illegal (only works to a point) or you can try to reduce demand by increasing overall quality of life - housing, healthcare, and generally a way to escape the clutches of the rat race that is life in America for so many.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#315

Post by mrcwinn »

ngai_aku wrote: post #287
mrcwinn wrote: post #126

Someone in my family died from fentanyl at 26. I knew him since he was a little kid. We don't know if they were aware of the presence of that substance, but they certainly were in a higher risk situation. They had a decent life and a loving, if imperfect, family. They just happened to fall into a rougher crowd in middle school and, despite more than a decade of support and help and money, never really broke out of it…

> they were excited to go to some convention in Minneapolis that was all about mushrooms and psychedelics. What struck me was how excited they were, how into that community they were. I couldn't relate. I thought to myself, isn't there anything in your life more exciting than this? Are you always this judgmental of others’ interests? Do you have these feelings towards someone excited about e.g. a new video game or a…

Actually, no. Had he been drawn to a programming conference, I wouldn’t have been able to draw a line between the dangers he’d been near and those interests. But when you see someone in a situation, and see them drawn to the wrong things for the wrong reasons, yes of course it triggers at least concern. I wish a lot I had been wrong.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#316

Post by Jerrrry »

inasio wrote: post #310

I used to follow Naltrexone trials: blocks opioids by having higher affinity in brain receptors), in principle it can work as a one month injection, but the results were also pretty poor. Even in well functioning medical professionals with opioid addiction, adherence was pretty poor. The hypothesis I remember was that the drug didn't have any tangible benefit, so it was hard to continue using it.

I am curious and have been researching this chemical and related structures recently.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#317

Post by mise_en_place »

patientplatypus wrote: post #142
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

I'm homeless and living in the Tenderloin in San Francisco. People here want you to - Be in a gang (or a prostitute, thief, ex-con and so forth) - Be on drugs (or in rehab for drugs) - Have a mental illness (so you can go to therapy) - Be disabled - Find religion There isn't a position for "I ran out of money and my family wouldn't support me, and at some point finding web development work became too hard as the tech…

I'm sorry for your situation, but you also have to realize, things are partly your fault. You mention you could be a bouncer at a bar, but you would have to go to the gym to develop enough muscle. And possibly start using chemicals to alter your bone density and muscle mass. In your situation, I'd say you have to go "all in" on something, whatever it is. If you just half ass it and complain that the world is against you, you will not go anywhere. That's just how it is.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#318

Post by Jerrrry »

cstejerean wrote: post #161
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

I think quite a lot of people ended up addicted to opioids against their will, by starting with being over prescribed highly addictive pain medication which then ended up making them addicted to opioids, and then later on ended up trying to feed that habit from the streets once the easy access to pain meds dried up. https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2022/20220303-settlement-purdue-... Personally I've been avoiding oxyconti…

Someone people just like to get high; painkillers to H to F seems far fetched but when you are chasing that original euphoria, its a much shorter timeframe than most expect.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#319

Post by Jerrrry »

dlkf wrote: post #256
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? This isn’t how it works. Few people, if any, want to “check out.” What happens is that people are exposed to opiods via one of two channels (they are prescribed painkillers, or they party with someone who has acquired them) and they quickly get hooked because these drugs are cripplingly addictive. So the only “why” questions we have to…

The party to addiction pathway is very regional, only affluent or hard-working teens can transverse that.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#320

Post by bitL »

Larrikin wrote: post #313
bitL wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell them to take NAD+ boosters like NR or NMN, or even the good old vitamin B3 in large quantities (1g/day). Addiction is often a sign of NAD+/FAD+ depletion in the brain.

You keep posting this over and over again with no source. If addiction to opiates was as simple as taking vitamin B3 and solved easily with the information in an internet comment there would be multiple studies and I suspect all over the news.

Maybe if you looked it up ("NAD therapy"), you'd have found it, like this one:

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/nad-therapy-ad...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31917996/

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3921/9/5/425

"The late John P. Cleary, MD, explained that we are likely to experience strong cravings for substances like alcohol when our NAD+ receptor sites are empty. That’s because alcohol drives the formation of the chemical compound acetaldehyde, which then interacts with dopamine to yield morphine-like compounds that temporarily quell cravings and withdrawal symptoms. When the NAD+ receptor sites become unoccupied again, however, the withdrawal symptoms and alcohol cravings come rushing in, driving us back to the bottle."

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