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Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

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Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#311

Post by mmcnl »

doctor_eval wrote: post #203
cheriot wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had more productivity loss than that from docker's bugs and CPU/battery drain. We don't use docker in prod so why use it for dev? I need a container not this power hungry daemon and annoying UI. As I type this my laptop is hot because docker needs to be reset and restarted.

This is what drove me away from docker in the first place - only to find there’s little alternative today. Honestly, the poor reliability of docker on any platform, for so many years, has tainted it in my mind and I will change in a heartbeat if something better comes along.

What do you mean? In my experience it's been super reliable for years and it never surprises me.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#312

Post by mmcnl »

doctor_eval wrote: post #287
chillfox wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting... My experience has been pretty much exactly the opposite, Docker just works flawlessly and it's the alternatives like podman and systemd that's caused me headaches and countless hours of wasted time.

I did hit some kind of networking bug on a Linux server recently (in the past 2 weeks) which required a restart of the Docker daemon, and that is my classic personal experience. We went all-in on Docker Swarm several years ago, and we ended up having to do full server reboots on what seemed like a weekly basis. And I know I'm not alone in having loads of problems on MacOS - although I must admit it seems to have been…

Docker Swarm is not Docker, it are two separate products. The industry has moved to Kubernetes anyways.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#313

Post by mmcnl »

twblalock wrote: post #210
roughly wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I'll do the math: $250k/yr/developer, so for 1 quarter, that's $62.5k, 3 developers for one quarter is $187.5k. Docker costs $10/mo, or $120/yr, so for 1000 developers, that's $120k/yr, or a payoff time of 1.5 years, assuming nobody ever has to touch anything ever again. Let's say our solution requires 1 developer-quarter per year to maintain - bugfixes, upgrades, deployments, etc. That's $62.5k/yr. That pushes o…

There is not just cost to count. There is also value in having a custom solution that is well integrated into your other tools, and value in avoiding vendor lock-in. Large companies build a lot of their own internal tooling for those reasons. Let's say there was no open source replacement (that's not true, or at least it's not going to be true when Podman and Rancher improve, but for the sake of argument...) What wou…

Organization and their suppliers are moving panels anyways. If Docker doubles the price you move to an alternative. Hardly the end of the world.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#314

Post by mmcnl »

dijit wrote: post #215
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. This is why I don’t want to sell to developers. “Here’s a solution that will save you hours every month, it’s only $9 p/m.” “$9 p/m???” - asked a developer choking on their avocado toast “That’s the same price as Spotify! Meh, I can develop the same thing myself in 2 weeks.” 2 months later. "Well, it's almost done. At least I won't be wasting $9 p/m."

Its not devs buying these tools in a company context, and devs are not on universally high salaries. I made the point before that these little costs rack up quickly, I can speak to my costs: Gitlab: 19/m Docker: 24/m Slack: 12.5/m Copilot: 19/m Office: 12.5/m Tailscale: 15/m oslash: 6/mo pagerduty: 41/m Jira/Confluence: 26.25/m Calendly: 16/m Bonusly: 4.5/m Snyk: 98/m Figma: 42/m Lens: 20/m Postman: 29/m Sourcegraph:…

But what are the costs of the alternatives? Not buying anything or rolling a DIY solution? This holds for any employee. Office chair isn't free either.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#315

Post by mmcnl »

eadmund wrote: post #300
dijit wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not devs buying these tools in a company context, and devs are not on universally high salaries. I made the point before that these little costs rack up quickly, I can speak to my costs: Gitlab: 19/m Docker: 24/m Slack: 12.5/m Copilot: 19/m Office: 12.5/m Tailscale: 15/m oslash: 6/mo pagerduty: 41/m Jira/Confluence: 26.25/m Calendly: 16/m Bonusly: 4.5/m Snyk: 98/m Figma: 42/m Lens: 20/m Postman: 29/m Sourcegraph:…

What is interesting to me is how much of that can be self-hosted, and how easily. An ops team is expensive, but so is $490/seat-month. Some of the things you mention are really easy to replace — I am thinking Git hosting locally, replacing Slack with Mattermost, Docker with Podman, Buildah & a container repository, Postman with restclient or Jetbrains with emacs — but for several of them there really aren’t good free…

You are not taking into account that big corps prefer to buy because it is also a way of doing risk management. You can make legally binding agreements with penalty clauses with suppliers. You can't do that with your own employees, which means you have to know how to hire great people and have the opportunity to pay them well, which is non-trivial.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#316

Post by yawaramin »

radiator wrote: post #205
ilyt wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the corporate is paying you for that time either way so that's their loss really

Yes, they pay you for that time, so what? Are you also not losing if you are not satisfied with your working environment?

Many people don't actually care enough to feel dissatisfaction. They just get in, do the job, and get out.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#317

Post by benatkin »

unity1001 wrote: post #306
jen20 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> independent of ALL of those infrastructures I want the container registry a local hop away from the thing using the images, not across the public internet…

That doesn't make a difference. With most of the stuff, images will only be pulled when they are not locally present or stale. Ie pull if not present in K8. So doesnt make any difference.

Where should they be cached for CI builds? How about caching them in the registry? Makes sense to me.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#318

Post by nerdponx »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #99
nerdponx wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had problems pushing to AWS ECR from Colima and had to switch back to Docker Desktop. But for day-to-day usage it seemed to work great.

I had to manually ln colima’s docker.sock to the default to get AWS SAM to work. Regardless of setting the env variable or docker context, it would always try to use the default docker.sock. Might be a similar issue for ECR.

Yep, that sounds exactly like the issue I had. You linked the Colima socket to the Docker socket location?

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#319

Post by unity1001 »

benatkin wrote: post #317
unity1001 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make a difference. With most of the stuff, images will only be pulled when they are not locally present or stale. Ie pull if not present in K8. So doesnt make any difference.

Where should they be cached for CI builds? How about caching them in the registry? Makes sense to me.

That depends on your CI service and pipeline...

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#320

Post by benatkin »

unity1001 wrote: post #319
benatkin wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where should they be cached for CI builds? How about caching them in the registry? Makes sense to me.

That depends on your CI service and pipeline...

OK, so I'm going to enable caching. Why? I could just have one I can download from.

Edit: hmm, maybe I do want a cache, because of the public containers they depend on. https://docs.gitlab.com/runner/configuration/speed_up_job_ex...

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