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Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

mattbruenig.com

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Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#311

Post by sandos »

londons_explore wrote: post #172
eppp wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because net metering is forcing the utility to purchase power at the retail rate. It doesn't make any sense. It isn't a profit margin issue. There is a massive infrastructure and expense to deliver wholesale power to an individual customer and it has to be recouped. Either you sell back your power at some percent of wholesale or solar installs need to get a corresponding increased delivery fee.

Another option is to split the fee into a 'connection fee', 'transmission fee' and a 'power fee'. Have the power fee set realtime by a market. The price might go to zero if there is excess generation. Have the transmission fee capped by a regulator - and charge it for any kilowatt hours that enter the power network. Allow third parties to arbitrage and offer 'fixed rate' deals, so consumers aren't at the whims of an…

This is sort of how it works in Sweden and probably a few other countries.

Bill is split into market and (local) grid parts. Many consumers have now moved the market parts to realtime pricing, since fixed-price arbitraging has become so expensive.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#312

Post by irrational »

CTmystery wrote: post #215
irrational wrote: post #88

We had solar panels on our last house. Even in the cloudy PNW, we generated enough electricity to cover 100% of our electrical needs. And, the monthly cost of the loan payment was about $30 less than our previous cheapest monthly electrical payment. Unfortunately our new house doesn't have a roof configuration that allows for solar panels. I wonder if new home architecture and alignment will change to make solar pane…

> Even in the cloudy PNW, we generated enough electricity to cover 100% of our electrical needs. I'm curious, was your heat and stove electric or natural gas (or other)?

Our stove was electric. The furnace was electric, but the water heater was gas.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#313

Post by dymk »

atonalfreerider wrote: post #56
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #3

> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.

I'm not affiliated, but Solar Wholesale is a DIY that can be 1/4 the cost of hiring a contractor: https://www.solarwholesale.com Even the wiring is DIY. Most people think this requires a lot of skill, but you are just adding an input to your panel board on your house.

I enjoyed working with Solar Wholesale, and they got me off to a good start. But there is a pretty significant markup even when considering they're giving you a "wholesale" DIY kit. I was quoted ~$35k pre-incentive for my project.

Also, be sure to do your own roof measurements when you look over their proposals. For my project, they used fairly inaccurate aerial/sat photos, which got the shape of my roof entirely wrong. Had I accepted their offer, I'd have ~33% too many panels / racking that wouldn't fit on the roof.

I ended up sourcing all the materials myself. I got much nicer inverters (1:1 Enphase IQ8+) and PV modules (455W LG bifacial) than what they were offering (2:1 APSystems inverters, 355W Bluesun panels).

The real kicker: I had enough budget left over to have a professional solar installer install all the panels for me, so I'm not the one that has to get on my steep roof, plus I have a warranty on the worksmanship of the installation. Pre-incentive, I'll have spent about $24k on my self-sourced version.

At some point I'll write up a blog post about the whole process - parts selection and sourcing, finding an installer, permitting, etc. It's really not that hard.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#314

Post by monkeydust »

gnicholas wrote: post #296
monkeydust wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just be glad your not in the UK. I pay 35p / kWh down and get only 5p / kWh for excess I sell to grid through Smart Export Guarantee. Price down has doubled in two years and way up has hardly moved. I joked with my neighbour that we should wire up our homes and sell my excess to him at mid point and we would both be better off.

Low-effort version, if he has an EV: get a long charging cable and charge him up when you're generating excess.

He doesn't but few on the street do. Could hack something over the summer that provides some charge on my driveway when I am net producing. Not sure if any legal/tax issues with the setup though. An interesting community project.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#315

Post by JanisErdmanis »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #42

I looked into solar in 2022. The bid I got for a 9.5 kW system and one Tesla Powerwall ended up being right around $50,000. No thanks.

That's an insane number. 25 solar panels + 9 kW inverter + bindings and wires would result in around 8000$.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#316

Post by dymk »

Xt-6 wrote: post #211
cheald wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar won't keep you online through a power outage. The inverter is required by law to cut power from solar panels when there is not power from the grid, so as to avoid feeding electricity back into the grid lines (which technicians may be working on!) - this is known as anti-islanding protection. If you want to be online through a grid outage you need a battery array.

It is possible to do this without battery, but you need some special inverters, like the Enphase IQ8.

Not just that, but an ATS needs to be installed like the Enphase Enpower. That's usually at least a few thousand to have an electrician install.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#318

Post by Ekaros »

secabeen wrote: post #155
eppp wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because net metering is forcing the utility to purchase power at the retail rate. It doesn't make any sense. It isn't a profit margin issue. There is a massive infrastructure and expense to deliver wholesale power to an individual customer and it has to be recouped. Either you sell back your power at some percent of wholesale or solar installs need to get a corresponding increased delivery fee.

What we need is a fundamental change in electricity billing. The value in a grid connection is in its reliability, availability and demand response (you can demand anything from 1 Amp to 200 Amps at any time, with no notice). The current usage-only billing model is broken. What we should do is pay a large flat monthly fee for the grid connection, then a lower rate for generation/usage, rather than bundling the delive…

In Finland system is setup for this.

First you pay for the electricity itself, can be from anyone, as on the level of the country in question electricity is entirely fungible.

Next is the connection or standing fee. Make sense, eventually you have to pay for the transformer and cabling to your home, even if in some location this is rather high.

And final piece is taxes + transfer fee paid by kWh. Again, you have pay for the local grid and charging by use makes some sense.

There is two prices that vary per use and one that doesn't. And reasonably so. Maintaining existing lines have a cost.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#319

Post by prottog »

malfist wrote: post #282
prottog wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> instead you should ask why the wealthy aren't paying their share of the taxes? And what is the right share that the wealthy should pay, and how wealthy should one be to be paying that amount? I'm assuming it's some level of wealth above yours. About half of the US doesn't pay any federal income tax, and a little over a quarter pays no net federal taxes at all, including payroll taxes. The labor force participation…

> Perhaps you should ask why two-fifths of adults aren't doing their share of the labor? Careful that you don't cut yourself with all those edgy takes.

I say this without any snark or sarcasm: I welcome your analysis on the matter, if you have thoughts to add. It's inconceivable to me where this belief comes from, that everything will be so much better if only the wealthy paid their "fair share" of taxes.

Otherwise, I ask that you keep empty comments out of the forum.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#320

Post by Ekaros »

londons_explore wrote: post #172
eppp wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because net metering is forcing the utility to purchase power at the retail rate. It doesn't make any sense. It isn't a profit margin issue. There is a massive infrastructure and expense to deliver wholesale power to an individual customer and it has to be recouped. Either you sell back your power at some percent of wholesale or solar installs need to get a corresponding increased delivery fee.

Another option is to split the fee into a 'connection fee', 'transmission fee' and a 'power fee'. Have the power fee set realtime by a market. The price might go to zero if there is excess generation. Have the transmission fee capped by a regulator - and charge it for any kilowatt hours that enter the power network. Allow third parties to arbitrage and offer 'fixed rate' deals, so consumers aren't at the whims of an…

Finland uses this model. Though the capping of transmission fees is bit iffy.

And lately the fixed rates have been quite variable going from 4 cents to 40 cents. The action by European countries caused some uncertainty. So timing has great effect.

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