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Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

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Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#311

Post by tinus_hn »

pm90 wrote: post #57

I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey? Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

Poaching other companies’ star employees is obviously appreciated by no one. That’s why there are non compete clauses etc.

You may or may not agree that that is reasonable, but it certainly is not exceptional and does not make Steve Jobs look like a bully.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#312

Post by saalweachter »

neilv wrote: post #144
nikanj wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was a dick. And there was a strong trend around 2010-2015ish that essentially said "Jobs was a dick and a genius. Therefore I must act like a dick, to prove that I'm a genius". So many startup CEOs acting like assholes to prove they're revolutionary visionaries.

Does Theranos getting investigated, circa 2015, mark the end of that period?

Honestly it's probably more time than anything like Theranos.

The last great Steve Jobs keynote was 2010, the iPad announcement. Any 25-30 year old founders nowadays would have been, what, 15 years old? Maybe there were a few enraptured tweens watching that stream, locking in a dream of being just like Steve Jobs that day, but at some point he's just another old dead guy to any new startup founders.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#313

Post by ericd »

ben_w wrote: post #269
mshake2 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a nonsensical "spherical cow in vacuum" thought experiment to say "Pixar exists but some employees are treated bad" vs "Pixar doesn't exist". If you think that it becomes impossible for a rational mind to weigh those two choices, then there's no point in me continuing this discussion with you.

If Pixar didn't exist, the same people would do the same (or close enough) work under a different brand. Quite possibly with each other. That's as distinct as two identical dice placed in no specific order, i.e. not. Ergo, not a realistic scenario.

No, not at all. Environment and the group of people they’re working with plays an enormous role in the work people do.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#314

Post by amanaplanacanal »

tinus_hn wrote: post #311
pm90 wrote: post #57

I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey? Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

Poaching other companies’ star employees is obviously appreciated by no one. That’s why there are non compete clauses etc. You may or may not agree that that is reasonable, but it certainly is not exceptional and does not make Steve Jobs look like a bully.

It’s certainly appreciated by the poached employee!

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#315

Post by SillyUsername »

dixie_land wrote: post #82
bluehorseray wrote: post #5

It would be pretty cool to have Steve Jobs and Sergey Brin fighting over you as an employee, wonder who it was.

> "He seemed to care whether the world has an alternative to IE." Whoever he is, he's a stand up guy in my book

Most of the web developer world cared about an alternative, just ask any older FE developer after screaming iiiieeeee (6) when their pages failed to render to published standards in it.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#317

Post by 1123581321 »

ilyt wrote: post #285
1123581321 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is far from the worst. It typically rates behind European nations and ahead of much of Asia-Pacific, Africa and the Middle East. Here’s one recent comprehensive labor report, for example. https://files.mutualcdn.com/ituc/files/2022-ITUC-Rights-Inde...

"We have better protection laws that some regimes and 3rd world countries!"

There was no implied commentary on my part, just a friendly push back on light eurocentrism.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#318

Post by a9h74j »

metaphor wrote: post #290
jjeaff wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can own something without pettiness and employing someone does not give you total control over that employee. In my mind, a feudal Lord is someone who wants everyone to know and acknowledge they are in charge and demands exacting obedience.

Still not quite making the link between "feudal lord" and "pettiness" (both seem equally subjective/vague). By "total control", do you mean well beyond the boundaries of labor law? In my mind, I'm admittedly inclined to interpret this color as a consequence of the music stopping at an unprofitable creative house with an internal culture of unabashed freedom on someone else's dime. Maybe I just need to read the books…

Perhaps "petty dictator" for connotations (a would-be not an absolute dictator). We might or might not have many too-distant impressions of what ancient feudalism involved. For example, I have heard suggested that it was a system fundamentally characterized by reciprocal obligations upward and downward (including a kind of labor law?). Abused no doubt, but not lawless.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#320

Post by bluedino »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #291
pm90 wrote: post #57

I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey? Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

A bully? It's business. If he can get Google to not hire people just by being tough on the phone that's a win. Costs almost nothing. My father once worked at an electronics contracting firm. One of his co-workers who was in charge of purchasing parts was masterful while on the phone with suppliers. He drove a very hard bargain and often shouted and swore at suppliers to extract the best prices. Bullying or business?

> He drove a very hard bargain and often shouted and swore at suppliers to extract the best prices. Bullying or business?

I worked for a guy who had built a business from his kitchen table to 90,000 sq ft building employing 100 people.

He was on vacation and met up with a long-time supplier of a material he used in his products, and after dinner one night the supplier told him he'd be increasing his prices by some large amount. They had a huge argument, and as soon as he came home he started a new plan. He'd make the material himself.

He found a person with a Phd in that field, bought the necessary equipment, and started producing his own polyurethane foams. After another 10 years, he found his own customers and was making more money reselling the foam than he was using it in his own products, and ended up selling the company to a chemical conglomerate for tens of millions of dollars.

Another fun fact: this guy would do all of his drawings in Microsoft Paint. Architectural drawings, product designs, everything. Blew my mind. He would fly tutors in for the week as he tried to learn AutoCAD, Solidworks, etc, but he hated them all.

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