NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

#311

Post by trinsic2 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:30 PM UTC

esarbe wrote: post #303

trinsic2 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If anything it means you effectively voted for whoever had the majority in the end and are still guilty of supporting the greater evil if they turn out to be such. Thats red herring. Our electoral system is completely corrupt. The only way your vote would actuallycount is if all of the politicians we're replaced at once. Then maybe there would be an even playing field where it would matter. Your statement of "you ef…

I think you make it too easy for yourself to drop responsibility. "Both parties are corrupt, everything is corrupt, the system is corrupt" is just a cope out. There are efforts to introduce alternative voting systems that make 3rd party systems viable. There are efforts to get ~~corruption~~ lobbying out of the system, ... If you really think that the system is "totally corrupt"; do something to fix it.

Im not AT ALL responsible for a system that is not controlled by the people. That has been as clear as day for the past 50 years. If you are supporting it, you are the problem. You are supporting corruption by playing its game.

Yes my "do something" is focusing on supporting grassroots people and efforts that we have direct control over.

I have no interest in supporting systems that are not backed up by common individuals.

Re: NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

#312

Post by anticensor » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:30 PM UTC

trinsic2 wrote: post #280

butlerm wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A corporation is a type of association and has rights that are derivative of its member's rights. An association is composed of people. The only reason why a corporation (or other association) has First Amendment rights is because it is exercising the First Amendment rights of its owners and members. The personhood of a corporation is a legal fiction. The personhood of the ultimate members or shareholders of a corpor…

Corporations rights don't trump the rights of people. They are subject to the people for a reason, they are organizations that exist for the people, of the people and by the people. This is why we ALLOW them to exist with charters to operate and the discretion of the people. And by the way that part has also been corrupted, charters essentially don't even matter now.

In Swedish law, corporations' (Aktienbolayet) interests do actually trump their own shareholders' interest.

Re: NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

#313

Post by anticensor » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:32 PM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #208

Drakim wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that corporations have a bunch of advantages like limited liability on top of the US Supreme court ruling them to have the same rights as people, which means that corporations actually have more rights than regular people.

People also have limited liability. You can't be sued for the actions of another person, or held responsible for the debt of another person.

Limited liability of business companies is much stricter. Natural persons do not have an automatic protection against debts beyond one's own wealth.

Re: NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

#314

Post by mxkopy » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:37 PM UTC

noisy_boy wrote: post #195

hackernewds wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why so?

They probably mean "as intended by lobbyists".

No, the system was always intended to have entry points for highly interested groups to make a play, at all levels. Remember that many of the balances in place are levied against (what the founders saw as stupid) people represented by popular vote (e.g. the electoral college).

Re: NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

#315

Post by trinsic2 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

anticensor wrote: post #312

trinsic2 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations rights don't trump the rights of people. They are subject to the people for a reason, they are organizations that exist for the people, of the people and by the people. This is why we ALLOW them to exist with charters to operate and the discretion of the people. And by the way that part has also been corrupted, charters essentially don't even matter now.

In Swedish law, corporations' (Aktienbolayet) interests do actually trump their own shareholders' interest.

I'm not sure what that means in terms of the common people. In my mind, shareholders, in the shareholding position, are the same as the corporations. When a person has a vested interest that could run counter to the will of the people, then In my mind that is not role where the person has rights that trump the will of the common people.

I know laws are made differently in different countries. But the idea of common law is more about doing whats right for everyone involved in daily living regardless of country. Corporations and making profit, in principle, is a byproduct of people and when those for-profit situations runs counter to the will of people, then in principle, that system should be subject to conditions set by people who actual care about its effects on the world.

Re: NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

#316

Post by nemo44x » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 10:12 PM UTC

Terretta wrote: post #310

nemo44x wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes down to pragmatism, not ideology. Consider you have to 2 groups, A and B, and a set of issues. Each issue has different importance to me and each group has a generally opposing stance on each issue. One group may have a stance on a subset of issues I generally prefer but more importantly the other group could have a stance on issues that terrify me. Their stance would lead to negative outcomes much worse tha…

You're misunderstanding issues versus the mechanism of issue management. You're saying ability to manage issues is less important than any issue being managed, which makes no sense. Unless, of course, you don't believe in democracy and an election process.

I believe in winning so the issues I care about most are either acted on or prevented from being acted on. Without winning it’s pointless. You need to win to take power so winning is the most important thing before anything else. Everything else has winning as a prerequisite.

Re: NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

#317

Post by tpmoney » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 10:40 PM UTC

62346136 wrote: post #188

denton-scratch wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really; I refuse to vote for evil politicians (it keeps my karma nice and shiny). Unless voting is mandatory, you can simply not vote for anyone. My practice is to vote for someone that won't win, like the Greens, but for whom my vote might save them their deposit.

Refusing to vote doesn't change the outcome if the only choices are bad ones. If anything it means you effectively voted for whoever had the majority in the end and are still guilty of supporting the greater evil if they turn out to be such.

>If anything it means you effectively voted for whoever had the majority in the end and are still guilty of supporting the greater evil if they turn out to be such.

No. This is a nice lie that conveniently encourages one to vote for the major parties but no. If someone comes up to you and offers you a choice of being shot in the arm or shot in the leg and you say "I don't want to be shot at all" you have no moral responsibility for being shot or where you were shot.

Re: NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

#318

Post by userbinator » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 11:41 PM UTC

celestialcheese wrote: post #262

jbsss wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a bad assumption. The “DIGITAL RIGHT TO REPAIR COALITION” and “ AGRIBUSINESS ASSOCIATION (NYS)“ were on that list. I’d find it hard to believe they were involved with neutering this bill. I would still agree with you though, most of the orgs on that list were likely at the table attempting to ruin the bill.

Can confirm DIGITAL RIGHT TO REPAIR COALITION is Repair.org and was the opposition to TechNet and all the OEMs lobbying against this bill.

That's a good confirmation because misleadingly named organisations (and bills) have been a norm in politics for a long time.

Re: NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

#319

Post by EricE » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 11:50 PM UTC

nyrulez wrote: post #289

themitigating wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We often have to vote for the lesser of two evils.

Election denier vs right to repair denier. If you consider the former less evil, good luck to you.

Election denier is such a stupid phrase - right now Democrats like to act like they have never disputed an election, which is a total crock. Hell Stacy Abrams had to be defeated twice before she finally conceded. And then you have people like some of those in this thread that not only buy into it, but feel morally superior at being duplicitous. Sigh.

Re: NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

#320

Post by chrischen » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 11:52 PM UTC

ectopod wrote: post #236

chrischen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really corruption? I mean, it’s just how our politics works. It’s so blatant because it is how it works.

This is true of every corrupt country. It's just how things are done. It's still corrupt.

Well I mean it's codified in our laws so you can call it "dejure" corruption vs defacto corruption.