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Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#311

Post by hellfish »

I don't want to disagree with this kind of article because it's talking about a real issue, but it pretty much takes a couple concrete numbers and tries asserting that they are just "facts of life". For example:

> The percentage decline is also similar for the young and old; however, given how much time young people spend with friends, the absolute decline among Americans age 15 to 19 is staggering.

This "given how much time young people spend with friends" just sounds off to me, like it's supposed to be some sort of constant value, and that human nature, social dynamics, etc are fixed to historical quantities.

On the one hand, should young people spend more time with friends? Probably. But on the other hand, this sort of "facts of life" type of assertion comes off as manipulative

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#312

Post by Dalewyn »

hellfish wrote: post #311

I don't want to disagree with this kind of article because it's talking about a real issue, but it pretty much takes a couple concrete numbers and tries asserting that they are just "facts of life". For example: > The percentage decline is also similar for the young and old; however, given how much time young people spend with friends, the absolute decline among Americans age 15 to 19 is staggering. This "given how m…

>manipulative

It's an opinion piece, and worse from the Washington Compost. It's going to be as manipulative as water is wet.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#313

Post by fancybouncy »

woeirua wrote: post #256
ryandrake wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just leave-me-alone individualism. It's this new, belligerent "Toxic Individualism" that's taken hold, supported by recent technological change (such as social media) and recent political/cultural change (many examples). A regular individualist simply prefers to operate on their own, outside of society and ignore collective activities. This new breed of individualism is more focused on attacking society and…

The anti-natalist movement is a good example of this.

not at all. They are completely different things. We anti-natalists see child-making as torture and murder against an innocent -- if you see someone murdering an innocent, surely it's normal to speak out against it and try to stop it. Child making is not about parents; you are free to do whatever you do with your own life, not to involve someone else by force.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#314

Post by karpierz »

Dalewyn wrote: post #306
UweSchmidt wrote: post #125

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

If you ask me, it's because humans fucking suck to be around. Myself and yourself included, along with everyone else. Marrying? Fuck that; pun intended. Friends? I can count the number of true friends I've ever had with one hand. Co-workers and comrades? Ultimately, we're just there to make ends meet. Societal collective (eg: neighborhoods, villages, towns)? Well, we're here talking about this because such things hav…

Why do people suck to be around?

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#315

Post by z3phyr »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #264
UweSchmidt wrote: post #125

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

I feel like it's the opposite. This was caused by the destruction of individualism. When people are individuals, you know the name of your butcher and which farm your wheat came from. Now it all comes from the collective and you can't participate in the process without being a drone. Working for Walmart is not the same as operating your own farm stand. You lack autonomy because decisions are made collectively by corp…

That's not individualism, that's absence of scale.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#316

Post by watwut »

zarzavat wrote: post #283
closeparen wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there is a problem with domestic labor being so demanding as to demand an entire human being's full time attention. That's why modernity is amazing.

Is it more meaningful if your labour is instead spent as a minute cog in a vast and faceless corporation? At least you can wear the clothes you wash. Don’t get me wrong, washing machines are great, probably one of the greatest inventions ever. We now can lead meaningful and consequential lives, but newly potent sources of inconsequentiality have arisen.

It gives you better control over your life. Cause that wife was utterly and absolutely dependent on husband. There was nothing she could do to improve her life if there were issues. And if he was gone (say due to being sick, dead, in prison) she was utterly absolutely effed. If be beat her up, she was helpless. If he was emotionally manipulative she was helpless. If the marriage just sucked, both were trapped. If he was feeling responsible, he would not leave her in poverty and would stay with her despite her being jerk too.

The kind of murder where husband kills wife used to be waaay more frequent then it is now. It is one of reasons for lower murders clearance rate ... cause these were super easy to solve.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#317

Post by karpierz »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #282
NegativeK wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are some craft clubs, but what's the point? Anything you can make pales in comparison to what you can get for a couple of bucks from Amazon. This is unhealthy. > There are a bunch of hobbies but they also seem pointless when you look at a few Youtube videos and see all the popular channels doing exactly what you would like to but a million times better. This is unhealthy. Over a decade ago, I had to accept th…

> This is unhealthy. And? How does one magically snap their fingers and change their hard-to-control brain? OP has a point in everything they're saying. Calling it unhealthy doesn't magically fix (inverse) their (very real/probably populous) perspective.

> How does one magically snap their fingers and change their hard-to-control brain?

There is no magic solution. But recognizing that there is a problem, it can be solved, and deciding to put effort into solving it are what it takes to fix it. This is step one.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#318

Post by [deleted] »

Dalewyn wrote: post #312
hellfish wrote: post #311

I don't want to disagree with this kind of article because it's talking about a real issue, but it pretty much takes a couple concrete numbers and tries asserting that they are just "facts of life". For example: > The percentage decline is also similar for the young and old; however, given how much time young people spend with friends, the absolute decline among Americans age 15 to 19 is staggering. This "given how m…

>manipulative It's an opinion piece, and worse from the Washington Compost. It's going to be as manipulative as water is wet.

[deleted]

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#319

Post by kwhitefoot »

haunter wrote: post #49

Not just the US but Europe too. I’m not religious but more and more I think that church (as an institution) had an actual positive effect on local communities. At least as a "force" to keep people together, have a community space etc. A space where you can meet and talk with others. My parents are Anglicans and I always liked the little tea and biscuits after each service. These things matter.

There are any number of clubs, associations, etc., that you can join to get some of the same effects.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#320

Post by notjoemama »

r12343a_19 wrote: post #287
ryandrake wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just leave-me-alone individualism. It's this new, belligerent "Toxic Individualism" that's taken hold, supported by recent technological change (such as social media) and recent political/cultural change (many examples). A regular individualist simply prefers to operate on their own, outside of society and ignore collective activities. This new breed of individualism is more focused on attacking society and…

You're the only one introducing "Toxic Individualism" in this thread. I wonder what do you mean by it? Because, just as well, there's an aggressive collectivist movement which directly attacks individuals (and individual choices). It's really easy to switch from "I like to do my things alone, let me be" to "society is evil" after having been made a pariah by the "collective".

It's also really easy, I'd say even more common, for people to be made a pariah because of their behavior and then blame the collective. You could say it's a hallmark of toxic individualism. Activism and narcissism is rampant in modern society now. The old guard of moral conformity no longer exists. That pendulum has already swung and the heros/villians have traded places. To be fair, its extremely rare for groups to own their bad behavior, but you can still find it in individuals. Perhaps a good example of toxic individualism is the way JK Rowling has been criticized by the LGBT community. She's the most prolific writer of today and she chose to empathize a social nuance over another. Where she deviated cause a lack of conformity to the individuals drawing their ire and getting her effectively cancelled from her own IP. This I think shows that toxic individualism empowers the few over the many based not on what is best or good for society but what the individuals deem necessary. It's frankly pathetic and needs stopped.
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