U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#311

Post by coxmichael » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 8:53 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #269

lkrubner wrote: post #88

I've read that doctors now spend as much as 50% of their time documenting their work. Companies such as Epic, which provide the software that hospitals use to build databases of patient data, have been big winners in the new world of hospitals-depending-on-software. But did the doctors become more productive? By almost any measure, they became less productive. People in tech keep thinking more tech will solve problem…

> I've read that doctors now spend as much as 50% of their time documenting their work. Companies such as Epic, which provide the software that hospitals use to build databases of patient data, have been big winners in the new world of hospitals-depending-on-software. But did the doctors become more productive? By almost any measure, they became less productive. I don't think "by almost any measure" is right. I think…

Both can be true, and greater systems of medical research and analysis don’t necessarily lead to greater on-the-ground treatment.

As you’ve pointed out, access to those information systems is critical. I’d add the distribution of that information as well as the right economic incentives to participate in using that information.

I’m not sure we’ve really got any one of those things right.

Edit: adding a bit of humanity to the system, as the OP is hinting at, could very much be a part of the fix.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#312

Post by downrightmike » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 8:53 PM UTC

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#313

Post by lumost » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 8:53 PM UTC

This shouldn’t be surprising. For the majority of us workers - output no longer correlates to remuneration. Working hard just means that you have slightly more money to live paycheck to paycheck on.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#314

Post by cashsterling » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 8:54 PM UTC

The article doesn't talk about how productivity is measured and the actual sensitivity and accuracy of the measurement(s). As others have pointed out, measuring productivity is a little hazy and probably is influenced by subjective bias (hey a recession might be coming... hmm, I feel like less work is getting done at my office).

I wonder how much bias affects the reported measurements? I doubt businesses outside of manufacturing can actually discern a 2% change in productivity, when screening for other factors, and some of them can't discern a 5% change.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#315

Post by scythe » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 8:54 PM UTC

lkrubner wrote: post #88

I've read that doctors now spend as much as 50% of their time documenting their work. Companies such as Epic, which provide the software that hospitals use to build databases of patient data, have been big winners in the new world of hospitals-depending-on-software. But did the doctors become more productive? By almost any measure, they became less productive. People in tech keep thinking more tech will solve problem…

>Software doesn't know when its rules should be broken.

Just to provide an example of this I ran into today: I'm doing a medical physics residency, and my supervisor was explaining that a new "fail-safe" incorporated into the software that reverted the collimator after every scan was now making the phototimer tests take twice as long, because we had to go back into the room and reset the collimator repeatedly. We tested a machine with the new system and one with the old system and it did in fact turn a 15-minute task into around 35 minutes.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#316

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

Eleison23 wrote: post #174

lkrubner wrote: post #88

I've read that doctors now spend as much as 50% of their time documenting their work. Companies such as Epic, which provide the software that hospitals use to build databases of patient data, have been big winners in the new world of hospitals-depending-on-software. But did the doctors become more productive? By almost any measure, they became less productive. People in tech keep thinking more tech will solve problem…

The last good, independent physician I had was a fellow who played Chess on the weekends downtown. His practice moved about 5 times while I was a patient and he finally was snapped up by the VA. He habitually called me "friend" and was very frank about my insurance not paying for stuff I was asking about, which I appreciated. He also once profusely apologized to me for placing a computer in between us. He said the ne…

Reminds me of this anecdote: https://notalwaysright.com/trying-to-get-a-word-in-until-you...

It may or may not be true (I suspect some of the stories on that site are made from whole cloth), but it speaks to your post.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#317

Post by m1el » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/productivity-2 Mystery solved by an comic author with economy degree :)

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#318

Post by richardknop » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 8:56 PM UTC

RomanPushkin wrote: post #95

My guess it's a game against inflation. People understand they're getting paid less for their hard work, and not motivated enough to work harder every day. For comparison, I'm spending x1.5 more on groceries than 1 year ago. Some items even x2 more expensive, comparing to last year. Salaries aren't growing that fast. Personally, I love what do, and this fact didn't affect the ability to work. However, I can imagine s…

Could be a factor at tech companies where lot of compensation is in a form of equity options. Especially smaller / medium sized tech companies have had their stocks go down by 50-80% in some cases. So now you’re earning much less than you thought you did plus inflation is out of control further reducing your real income.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#319

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 8:56 PM UTC

n65463f23_4 wrote: post #179

D13Fd wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right about daycare/school closings. Even now, essentially post-covid, if our two-year-old gets COVID, that's a 10-day quarantine from daycare. That's 10 days where one of the parents has to work from home and be horribly unproductive because they are watching a child at the same time. And you can get COVID repeatedly. It often from the daycare itself, but also from a sibling who is in school. Even with full,…

sounds like washington state lol. one of the reasons we moved from there. now at my kids preschool, if a kid gets sick they stay home, if they are better the next day they come back. no PCR tests, no missing 2 weeks if any member of the family was sick, its great

[deleted]

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#320

Post by Kiro » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 8:56 PM UTC

I mean, it's obviously WFH. You might be more productive working from home but most people aren't. Any productivity boost was due to the novelty of it all but disappeared once the honeymoon was over. My friends who had never worked a single day from home before the pandemic were ecstatic and felt really motivated. Nowadays, not so much.