Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 330 posts

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#311

Post by adultSwim »

lizardactivist wrote: post #259

Without a doubt US American sabotage. During the days and weeks leading up to Russia's move into Ukraine, the US rhetorized over and over again about Nord Stream. All the time the main issue was that the EU must not buy LNG from Russia, it must agree to USAs "energy dominance" politics and buy LNG from them and only them. This is a way to make sure that when winter comes, the EU has nowhere to go for LNG but to the U…

I worry that the temptation to defeat Russia is stronger than the desire to end the war. No one wins but many lose.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#312

Post by morpheos137 »

funnym0nk3y wrote: post #279
lizardactivist wrote: post #259

Without a doubt US American sabotage. During the days and weeks leading up to Russia's move into Ukraine, the US rhetorized over and over again about Nord Stream. All the time the main issue was that the EU must not buy LNG from Russia, it must agree to USAs "energy dominance" politics and buy LNG from them and only them. This is a way to make sure that when winter comes, the EU has nowhere to go for LNG but to the U…

I wouldn't say that this is a operation for global hegemony or energy dominance. It's simply about preserving political influence in Europe. Unfortunately, I must say, Europe/the EU is not capable of a proper geopolitical strategy. Europe would easily be annihilated by Russian psyops, so in all that misery this brings to the alliance, it's still net positive.

From an EU perspective why would peace and trade with Russia be so bad?

Clearly US psyops are stronger than anything Russia puts out because EU governments have been persuaded to participate in a crusade in Ukraine against their own economic self interests.

Making the EU kowtow to America may be in American interests but it certainly is not in EU interests.

I am not sure when this myth of Russia psyop dominance came from. Only seemed to become a thing after Hillary lost the election and Brexit. More likely source of blame for that falls on endogenous populism in reaction to economic and social changes in the last decade or two. Russia was not responsible for bailing out western banks while real wages stagnated and also was not responsible for widespread immigration and others consequences of globalisation and conflict in the middle east and Africa.

Reality does not correspond to the social media mythology that Russia has some how infiltrated western politics at a significant scale.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#313

Post by morpheos137 »

koheripbal wrote: post #200
Markoff wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well clear winner of current sitaution is US, clear loser is Europe/EU and Russia is somewhere in between, but they can sell their gas elsewhere, so what would be point sabotaging own business (though it could be false flag attack).

No, the winner here is clearly Russia. They wanted to cut the line to pressure the EU into pressuring Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire along existing battle lines. Cutting production through an "accident" allows them plausible deniability to cut Europe's gas supplies without formally violating the contract and for restoration negotiations if the Ukraine question is settled.

Supposedly 350 million dollars worth of gas were lost from nord stream 2. Doesn't seem worth it for a false flag. Plus it eliminates a carrot Russia had for Germany. People need to start thinking critically...

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#314

Post by morpheos137 »

pseudo0 wrote: post #130
ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russian conquest of parts of the Ukraine. I encourage you to drop the definite article "the" when referring to Ukraine. https://theconversation.com/its-ukraine-not-the-ukraine-here...

What's more interesting about that article is the threat of social shaming at the end: > Like it or not, and intentionally or not, the language a person uses reflects their political positions, including their position on Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty. As a citizen of the United States, this whole issue seems ridiculous. It's remarkable though how a media and PR campaign, combined with social pressure, can change…

No post body was provided.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#315

Post by ngetchell »

aa-jv wrote: post #194
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we were talking about sabotage This is a message, a fuckup or an accident. What it is not is a successful covert operation by a competent intelligence agency.

Biden openly stated that he would destroy these pipelines. Why would a "competent" intelligence agency need to get involved in making it covert, after the US President, himself, admitted that it would happen? This straw man argument you're making does serve to deflect attention from the one party that is obviously going to benefit from this event, however.

I've seen Russian media and Tucker Carlson try to make the claim that the US did this but no reputable outlet.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#316

Post by bitL »

arrrg wrote: post #281
lm28469 wrote: post #214

I bet my left nut that in 50 years we'll learn it was a US operation https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8?t=95

Doesn’t make sense at all. Why blow it up when the German governing parties and the largest opposition party don’t want to move ahead with Nord Stream 2 anyway?

Politicians change, sometimes abruptly, especially during crisis. This prevents the "new guys" from starting the pipeline.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#317

Post by bitL »

fabian2k wrote: post #122
sprash wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. People in Germany couldn't care less about Ukraine because it is far away. Most assume that Putin will win this war anyways. However, they care strongly about cheap Gas because it directly influences their lives.

70% of Germans favor continuing support for Ukraine even if that causes high energy prices ( https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/politbarometer-union-... ). This value is practically unchanged for months.

Polls are one thing, supermarket prices jumping 80-100% in a single day are another.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#318

Post by notdonspaulding »

aa-jv wrote: post #158
cassianoleal wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A conspiracy (...) is a secret plan or agreement between persons (called conspirers or conspirators) for an unlawful or harmful purpose, (...) especially with political motivation, while keeping their agreement secret from the public or from other people affected by it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy It is a conspiracy.

Not a conspiracy: Biden himself stated - quite publically - that they would do it. It has been done. Did you not read the quote? Besides which, the US unilaterally gives itself the right to do these sorts of things at its own discretion on a regular basis.

> Not a conspiracy: Biden himself stated - quite publically - that they would do it. It has been done.

I have no strong opinions yet in the argument over whether or not the USA conspired to sabotage the NS pipelines. I'm just here to point out that secrecy is not a required part of a conspiracy. The literal translation of "conspire" from Latin would be something like "to breathe together", insinuating a synchronization of movements, a plotting together.

But, in our world today, all conspiracies (both confirmed and theoretical conspiracies) seem to get bucketed together. And so in common parlance, as soon as a thing is publicly confirmed as actually happening, in most people's minds it moves out of the "Conspiracy" bucket into the "History" bucket. But that's just a loss of language on our part. As always, my go-to resource in recovering the meanings of English words is Webster's 1828.

https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/conspiracy

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#319

Post by gocartStatue »

morpheos137 wrote: post #312
funnym0nk3y wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say that this is a operation for global hegemony or energy dominance. It's simply about preserving political influence in Europe. Unfortunately, I must say, Europe/the EU is not capable of a proper geopolitical strategy. Europe would easily be annihilated by Russian psyops, so in all that misery this brings to the alliance, it's still net positive.

From an EU perspective why would peace and trade with Russia be so bad? Clearly US psyops are stronger than anything Russia puts out because EU governments have been persuaded to participate in a crusade in Ukraine against their own economic self interests. Making the EU kowtow to America may be in American interests but it certainly is not in EU interests. I am not sure when this myth of Russia psyop dominance came…

Why would doing business with dangerous psychopath be so bad?

After all, we’d just continuously give him money and depend on his services for our wellbeing, choosing to ignore that he kills „some less important people way east”. Nothing to see here.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#320

Post by throwaway29812 »

morpheos137 wrote: post #312
funnym0nk3y wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say that this is a operation for global hegemony or energy dominance. It's simply about preserving political influence in Europe. Unfortunately, I must say, Europe/the EU is not capable of a proper geopolitical strategy. Europe would easily be annihilated by Russian psyops, so in all that misery this brings to the alliance, it's still net positive.

From an EU perspective why would peace and trade with Russia be so bad? Clearly US psyops are stronger than anything Russia puts out because EU governments have been persuaded to participate in a crusade in Ukraine against their own economic self interests. Making the EU kowtow to America may be in American interests but it certainly is not in EU interests. I am not sure when this myth of Russia psyop dominance came…

> From an EU perspective why would peace and trade with Russia be so bad?

Because Russia every once in a while invades a part of Europe to carve off territory for itself, then holds the rest of the continent hostage by withholding gas during the freezing winter.

Why would you want peace with a country that is just biding its time before it starts it's next war?

Post reply on HN