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At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

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Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#311

Post by gruez »

michaelmrose wrote: post #144
gruez wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That sounds pretty nefarious to me because the state has a duty of care for its citizens - of which this is a clear and flagrant abdication. Which part of it constitutes "a clear and flagrant abdication"? >At the end of the day this is the same thing - the state should be paying less when there's less crime. It should be incentivized to stop crime from happening in the first place. >It should be spending that money…

It's simpler just to make the privately run prisons illegal so as to avoid any moral hazards. If the facility is under utilized less investment will be needed in the future and conditions can be improved for existing inmates.

> It's simpler just to make the privately run prisons illegal so as to avoid any moral hazards.

What are the moral hazards here? The people running the prisons aren't the ones sentencing/convicting criminals.

>If the facility is under utilized less investment will be needed in the future and conditions can be improved for existing inmates.

What's the difference between wasting money because the state didn't meet the minimum inmate quota, and wasting money because the state invested in a 1000 inmate prison but there's only 600 prisoners?

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#312

Post by greendude29 »

jollybean wrote: post #290

I actually do believe it's perfectly fair in theory to require criminals to pay for damages etc. that said, the application of all of that can be very problematic.

Why?

Here's 3 reasons why it is bonkers to require this: 1. By requiring this, the government is foregoing its primary stake in preventetive justice, ie recidivism 2. This is double punishment 3. A government's role is to ensure its population thrives, not a balanced checkbook

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#313

Post by illuminerdy »

shakezula wrote: post #92

Years ago, I got a speeding ticket. I worked nights at the time, and the office to make the payment at had very strange hours because it was from a tiny town. My schedule made it difficult to make it over to the office during open hours, and one of the times I tried it was closed randomly over lunch because again, small town. (I learned later there was only one person who ran the whole office.) A day after my speedin…

> It taught me a serious lesson about the law: They exist only for power and profit.

I understand your frustration, but the law does not exist ONLY (or at all, if I'm being honest) for power and profit. The law exists to provide each person with a baseline to guide their interactions, whether it be between them and other individuals, or between them and their government.

Now, obviously you have abuses and especially when some in the government/beaurocracy find out they can get funds by abusing their authority (e.g. civil asset forfeiture), but that's not why the law exists, and it doesn't happen everywhere. That's just a symptom of a lack of oversight by we, the people (chiefly).

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#314

Post by homonculus1 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #244
metadat wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. It's a statistic many people are not aware of. Additionally, if you look at the racial breakdown of who's incarcerated in the USA, it's disproportionately black relative to number of blacks per capita residing in the country. Blacks are incarcerated at 5x the rate of whites, and make up 40% of all incarcerated individuals. This is insane.

Do blacks commit more crime, or are they only more likely to be incarcerated as a result?

Ahh, oops! Next question!

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#315

Post by illuminerdy »

metadat wrote: post #260
SoftTalker wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do blacks commit more crime, or are they only more likely to be incarcerated as a result?

There are systemic issues, prejudices, and discrimination that put dark skinned / people of color at a disadvantage at almost every point in the system. American society is rigged against these folks. Example from yesterday, a black pastor was arrested for watering his neighbors plants because he "looked suspicious": https://news.yahoo.com/black-alabama-pastor-says-wrongfully-...

I have major problems with using stories like these to promote the idea that the police did something wrong.

The police don't know who that man was, or why he was on property that didn't belong to him. They're not mind readers. If he had provided the identification (or at least his name/DOB) that they had asked for, then it probably would have become clear to them that he was telling the truth. But by REFUSING to give them any information that would prove his story true, he escalated a situation that could have been resolved without his arrest.

People seem to forget that we ask police TO INVESTIGATE. Not just walk up, accept whatever story they are given and then drive away.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#316

Post by [deleted] »

illuminerdy wrote: post #313
shakezula wrote: post #92

Years ago, I got a speeding ticket. I worked nights at the time, and the office to make the payment at had very strange hours because it was from a tiny town. My schedule made it difficult to make it over to the office during open hours, and one of the times I tried it was closed randomly over lunch because again, small town. (I learned later there was only one person who ran the whole office.) A day after my speedin…

> It taught me a serious lesson about the law: They exist only for power and profit. I understand your frustration, but the law does not exist ONLY (or at all, if I'm being honest) for power and profit. The law exists to provide each person with a baseline to guide their interactions, whether it be between them and other individuals, or between them and their government. Now, obviously you have abuses and especially…

[deleted]

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#317

Post by coldtea »

germinalphrase wrote: post #210
pleb_nz wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your bank app doesn't have shortcuts to pay fines and taxes?

Is that a thing… anywhere?

I think it's only not a thing in the US.

Even many third world countries offer that...

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#318

Post by coldtea »

1123581321 wrote: post #253
shakezula wrote: post #92

Years ago, I got a speeding ticket. I worked nights at the time, and the office to make the payment at had very strange hours because it was from a tiny town. My schedule made it difficult to make it over to the office during open hours, and one of the times I tried it was closed randomly over lunch because again, small town. (I learned later there was only one person who ran the whole office.) A day after my speedin…

That is frustrating, but when were you planning to pay? Couldn’t you have mailed it in? Suspended license driving is anti-social. Any law with a firm cutoff or deadline, and no gradual increase of penalty, sucks for those who barely miss complying with it. There needs to be some kind of consequence, though.

>There needs to be some kind of consequence, though.

No, there just need to be better laws - or at least, more fit to the "crime" response.

In fact, if he was indeed "5 mph above the speed limit" he shouldn't even have been fined in the first place.

Police can and should use discretion (and they often/mostly do, this was just a shitty move in a shitty district).

Not to mention that, even given the fine was ok, there should have been an online/bank transfer way to pay...

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