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German digital signage ban prompts confusion

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Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#311

Post by igorkraw »

sidkshatriya wrote: post #102
phartenfeller wrote: post #32

Here in Germany, there was recently a leak in the news. It said that a single LED sign consumes as much energy as 10 single households[0]. Of course, the companies don't want to give any official information. That is pretty high for no real value for society in my opinion... [0] https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/technologie/led-reklame...

> That is pretty high for no real value for society in my opinion... There is a widespread belief that Advertising serves no purpose to humanity. Advertising is like anything in life: In high doses it is harmful. In lower doses it is useful. If there are regulators in your country that prevent advertisers from making false claims, even better. Advertising has helped me hone onto products and services in my whole life…

There is one thing that extremely easy way to retain the "benefit" you claim: make advertising opt-in. Truly, continuously opt-in. Every time there is an ad, you have to tap "yes, I'd like to see it" (or "yes, show all ads for this movie", but not across movies). If there is truly advantages to ads, people will choose to see them.

I'd go even further: have different platforms compete as "and serving" places, basically opt-in targeted advertising sites. They aren't allowed to use any external data, just a questionnaire and your behaviour on the platform, and the user must choose to go to the site by entering it into their browser or looking it up on Google. No ads anywhere else.

If ads are truly as beneficial as you describe, people will go for it. Let the market decide whether ads are good for the consumer

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#312

Post by alexb_ »

registeredcorn wrote: post #301
andrepd wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there is a space for advertising that is gentler, honest and educational. Think of advertising as a way of companies to say "Hey! here's something we're proud of -- please have a look. By selling to you, the customer, we can make a profit and you can get the benefit from our product". I cannot recall one single advertisement I ever saw in my life, other than some institutional/non-profit ads, which remotely fit…

Are you thinking strictly in terms of massive, multi-national companies? For myself, it would be far more handy if I had seen ads for local plumbers, chimney repair, barbershops, etc. I try to support my local economy whenever I can, and I don't mind paying a premium for smaller shops since they usually do a better job, or are at least incentivized to do so. When it comes to something like buying a car, I don't want…

>I can absolutely think of cases where I would have liked to know what services are available for specific products, like chair making, or a project I have in mind, rather than having to ask around to figure out who even does it in my area.

We had this, it was called phone books. And I guess a phone book is technically advertising, but there's clearly a difference between info and manipulation.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#313

Post by immibis »

turing_complete wrote: post #23
TomK32 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bigger problems in Germany are the lack of big power lines between the North and South and of course the reluctance to build more wind energy. Especially Bavaria has been shooting its own feet several times, even built a gas power station a few years back and now it's in a bit of a panic...

You cannot power a country with wind power alone. Even if you want to build wind turbines, you need nuclear, gas, or coal to back them up.

That's false. You can't power a country with one source of wind power in the manner to which they have become accustomed. Which is the same justification for so many bad things throughout history, be it wars for resources, to making battery-farmed workers pee in bottles because Jeffrey couldn't bear to have one fewer personal yacht.

If people had grown up with variable supply of electricity, they would have no problem with it today. It's only the transition from something better to something worse that causes riots.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#314

Post by shukantpal »

moffkalast wrote: post #226
andrepd wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LEDs can light a medium-sized room with <5W. That's incredibly energy efficient.

Not when you consider that it's still heating the room with 3 of those watts. If you asked me to build a house and I threw away more than half of the bricks you'd call me crazy. But when it comes to leds it's called "incredible efficiency". It's only efficient in comparison to the other options, not in any objective sense.

“Efficient” is a relative comparison. Any absolute threshold would be arbitrary anyway

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#315

Post by emn13 »

morsch wrote: post #69
phartenfeller wrote: post #32

Here in Germany, there was recently a leak in the news. It said that a single LED sign consumes as much energy as 10 single households[0]. Of course, the companies don't want to give any official information. That is pretty high for no real value for society in my opinion... [0] https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/technologie/led-reklame...

Average power usage for a 1 person household in Germany is 1300 kwh/year (roughly, numbers vary, but not to a degree that it matters). That's about 150W sustained. So 1500W for a large sign, that's like 150 high power LED light bulbs, I guess that checks out. Anything that reduces ads in the public sphere is fine by me.

1500W of LEDs is... rather bright; on the order of 150000 lumen. I guess there will be significant losses perhaps, but I sure hope most signage is using a lot less than that.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#316

Post by immibis »

potamic wrote: post #62

My city banned billboard advertising once. All of them digital and non-digital. It was fabulous and finally felt like a place to live. Sadly it did not last long and their revival only reinforced how refreshing their absence was. I think we do not realize the value of visual space and pay a heavy price when we decide to monetize it.

The city should require 98% of billboard advertising to go to a citizen's dividend - then we can see whether citizens feel it's worth it or not.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#317

Post by matheusmoreira »

sidkshatriya wrote: post #102
phartenfeller wrote: post #32

Here in Germany, there was recently a leak in the news. It said that a single LED sign consumes as much energy as 10 single households[0]. Of course, the companies don't want to give any official information. That is pretty high for no real value for society in my opinion... [0] https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/technologie/led-reklame...

> That is pretty high for no real value for society in my opinion... There is a widespread belief that Advertising serves no purpose to humanity. Advertising is like anything in life: In high doses it is harmful. In lower doses it is useful. If there are regulators in your country that prevent advertisers from making false claims, even better. Advertising has helped me hone onto products and services in my whole life…

> But there is a space for advertising that is gentler, honest and educational.

There is no such thing as honest advertising. The conflict of interest is inherent. The best information comes from third parties but even that gets corrupted by advertisers eventually.

> Think of advertising as a way of companies to say "Hey! here's something we're proud of -- please have a look.

When I want companies talking to me about products, I'll visit their website or I'll open their store app. In those cases it's not even advertising but information. I asked to see the products. Advertising is by definition an intrusion, uninvited.

Most of the time I don't want companies talking to me about offers. Their insistence is abuse.

That ideal of advertising you described is virtually non-existent. It's generally manipulation of the lowest sort concocted by sociopathic people.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#318

Post by [deleted] »

boredumb wrote: post #259
polycaster wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What on earth are people spending electricity on? I guess there are just a lot more appliances in use today and we're more lazy. When I, approaching my 40s, compare our household with my parents household when I was a child there a various notable changes in habits: - My mother hang the loundry to dry. We seldomly do this anymore, instead we're using a dryer. These things are insanely power-hungry. - Electronics fo…

Why are ACs awkward in Germany?

[deleted]

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#319

Post by josephcsible »

tartoran wrote: post #282
jhoechtl wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are power-hungry and everyone knows that. More generally because the climate in central Europe is not like Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, California but hospitable during the summer season without AC. AC makes it more comfortable during hot days but it is still doable without. This is only true for private households. Since 10 years ACs are widely used in a business environment.

Meanwhile during the summer momnths offices in the US turn on the AC to such low temperatures that one needs to put on a sweater.

Remember that when you're too hot in an office, there's really nothing you can do about it and you just have to suffer. At least you have the option to do things like put on a sweater when you're too cold. Given that, it seems to make sense to keep the office at the coolest temperature preferred by anyone in it.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#320

Post by samatman »

jhoechtl wrote: post #261
boredumb wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are ACs awkward in Germany?

Because they are power-hungry and everyone knows that. More generally because the climate in central Europe is not like Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, California but hospitable during the summer season without AC. AC makes it more comfortable during hot days but it is still doable without. This is only true for private households. Since 10 years ACs are widely used in a business environment.

Germans should be using heat pumps for their homes anyway, it can't be beaten for efficiency. Every time I mention this there's someone who doesn't know that heat pump systems don't require excavation: they don't.

This gets you air conditioning literally for free, and you get to be the one to frown at your neighbors for continuing to burn something to stay warm.

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