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Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

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Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#311
post #230

EEs are pretty far away from the money. That really impacts earning potential. Most EEs who went the traditional route and want to keep doing electronics in some form but make money become Field Application Engineers (FAEs) to get closer to the sale and show their value to the company. The crustiest old engineers are buried deep within a corporation and it's hard to show value on the bottom line. Similarly, the FAANG…

I worked in the semiconductor industry, and at least in our niche of the semiconductor industry, FAEs were some of the worst paid people, a long with production test for some reason. FAEs were seen as the lowest level support who were a stop-gap for our application engineers (non-field). If a big customer had a problem, we would send an AE out to show that we were taking it seriously. No idea if it's the same in othe…

>A friend interviewed for a hardware position at Apple and the salary was definitely SWE levels of high.

Which probably explains why Apple is the only, or one of the rare few, consumer electronics companies with products most people actually want to buy and love to own.

People keep pointing out how shitty products form Apple's competitors are (Samsung, Dell, etc.), but when you look how little they pay for talent in comparison to Apple, it becomes obvious why their products are so inferior.

Engineering great devices is expensive, and since the West offshored everything to China, and went for cutting costs as much as possible including on engineering wages, how can they expect to deliver quality?

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#312

I will just add to the chorus here: * I graduated as a Computer Engineer. * Worked as EE/EEE entire career (currently almost 14 years). * Half of my class of EEs and CEs went into other careers immediately after graduation because money was better. * 10 years later my best conservative estimate (based on sampling from friends from my year) is that at least another quarter has left because money. * I have mainly worke…

I'm a CE, interned at Intel. Pure software now (some IaaS).

Hardware can't hit the market reach of software so your potential value can never be as high.

The fact that most software companies fail is an entirely different fact.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The stuff about needing to know a lot more physics or arcane domain specific stuff isn't so true ha ha wait until you find out about microwave engineering.

Pardon, but I don't understand the point you tried to make... Does a software engineer have perfect grasp and understanding about every subfield in SWE? Ranging from DX to writing compilers or designing languages, SWE is an extremely broad field. EE is no different.

The failure modes are substantially different, which changes the approach.

Free climbing a 5ft rock wall is not different than a 50ft one, etc.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#314
I studied elec eng for 4 years in the UK up to masters level. I went from being top of the class with a good knowledge of maths/physics to struggling. A few people moved from elec eng to cs and went from failing to getting a 1st. On graduation I had options to work in defense building radar and all sorts of stuff, but I didn't have the confidence to take up any of those options. I took a programming job which was basically adding numbers up, saving stuff to a database which I actually had some chance of succeeding in. I'd imagine within a couple of years that job would be paying double what I could make doing engineering.

I see quite a few places doing embedded work in the uk that involves some electronics. When I did need to do something that involved elec eng recently we did a procurement which ended up in an Indian company providing some custom built Arduino devices to do signal testing and report back to us. They were pretty good, but there was no sensible option where we could get the same thing done in Europe on budget.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand how the market dynamics work here. As a software engineer, I feel like the market is flooded with workers, and that it is an easy job. I have no idea how we’ve managed to sustain these salaries for so long. At some point, I keep expecting a correction in salaries simply due to supply / demand. I also keep thinking, surely other industries will start paying more and treating folks better, so they ca…

> As a software engineer, I feel like the market is flooded with workers, and that it is an easy job I think you overestimate the quality of median software engineer. Even at a company like Amazon, I think something like 20% engineers can barely code. Add to that industry expectation to work independently with little guidance and not that many people who will fit the bill. There are lots of junior engineers, who with…

They didn't say flooded with good workers...

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#316

I will just add to the chorus here: * I graduated as a Computer Engineer. * Worked as EE/EEE entire career (currently almost 14 years). * Half of my class of EEs and CEs went into other careers immediately after graduation because money was better. * 10 years later my best conservative estimate (based on sampling from friends from my year) is that at least another quarter has left because money. * I have mainly worke…

Matches my experience 100%. I'm a Software Developer in Germany and more than half of the EEs I know went into software because it was better money and a lot more available jobs, which might be even more important. We don't get Silicon Valley money here after all.

Oh, and also the scale I guess. I worked at a startup that did Hardware + Software. One hardware team (6-8 people), 5 software teams (~50 people).

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#317

I started as an EE and gradually moved over to software out of a mix of interests and career options. Strangely, the EE degree seemed to trigger certain hiring managers into downplaying my software experience and lowballing my offers. A lot of "He's an electrical engineer but he can write some code too" introductions. I heard a lot of "Wow, you're really good at software for an EE!" from various people. The stereotyp…

What are you talking about? IT is the most degree inclusive industry ever by far, even in your example. I like EE and created many things, but don't have a degree. Everyone knows I can't get an interview there, let alone job, forget equality.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget low level embedded programmers, Kernel developers, and many who live in the world of coding in C/ASM. I recall numerous instances in my undergraduate career where professors and the students passionate in these fields would actively persuade people who didn't get exposes to the stuff from even trying. I remember one professor teaching an elective class on the Linux kernel and how he would try his best to…

We are currently having a hell of a time trying to hire embedded developers We're looking for bare metal developers so basic SPI, I2C, UART knowledge is essential, but even in that realm it's surprising how many embedded devs can't work outside of an RTOS and lack basic hardware knowledge

Hi there, I fit your bill.

Not interested though because after 9 years of sensor experience software just pays triple my best pay in those years with easier deliverables. Never again.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#319

I will just add to the chorus here: * I graduated as a Computer Engineer. * Worked as EE/EEE entire career (currently almost 14 years). * Half of my class of EEs and CEs went into other careers immediately after graduation because money was better. * 10 years later my best conservative estimate (based on sampling from friends from my year) is that at least another quarter has left because money. * I have mainly worke…

I don’t understand how the market dynamics work here. As a software engineer, I feel like the market is flooded with workers, and that it is an easy job. I have no idea how we’ve managed to sustain these salaries for so long. At some point, I keep expecting a correction in salaries simply due to supply / demand. I also keep thinking, surely other industries will start paying more and treating folks better, so they ca…

Two things - I don't think it's as easy as you think it is. If you're good at it, it can feel comparatively easy, because when you're good at it and you enjoy it - it's fun. It's flow. You get lost in it and don't realize that you were just working flat out for 12 hours. But there are lots of things that are flow that are not easy.

I've been coding since I was 12, I have flow days where it's just an absolute pleasure. But on a bad day where I never hit flow, it's brutal. It's so hard to force myself to focus. And often when I come back the next day, the code I wrote is absolute shit and I spent a good chunk of the next day just debugging it.

So yeah, echoing those who say not easy.

The other piece of it, is that I actually think a lot of software engineers are massively underpaid. I was at my last job for 7 years. My total compensation, including benefits, options and what have you, was probably less than $1 million (over 7 years mind you). But I can draw a direct line between work I did and the enablement of millions of dollars of ARR. The company probably got anywhere from a 5x or a 10x return from their investment in me. I was paid a little under market, but not so far under market that I'm that different from the norm. I worked on some particularly high impact features in terms of return, so that line is particularly clear for me and not all of my peers there could say the same -- but a lot of them could, and even for the ones where it was less obvious it's still true. As software engineers at a software company, our work is ultimately essentially. The companies don't exist with out us.

As a class, given that, we're still underpaid ;)

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#320
I'm a mechanical engineer and I can give a similar perspective. I'm now in software engineering and I'm doing well. My other classmates who moved into consulting or finance are doing even better. Those who stayed in engineering have struggled. I live in a developing country: too poor to manufacture anything high-tech, too rich with strong labour laws to manufacture anything low-tech. My friends who stayed in engineering are "installation engineers" or "sales engineers" or "stand-by engineers" since the products they use/sell/watch over are designed elsewhere. Those who are in design firms have suffered layoffs and company bankruptcies.

My friends in engineering are passionate about what they do which is why they stick with it. I like the intellectual challenge I get from software engineering and the people I work with. I'm glad I get paid well for it too. I don't think I would get the same level of stimulation in an "engineering" firm here and certainly not the same salary.

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