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George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

gutenberg.net.au

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Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#311
post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

Interesting the way that you group "not very smart" and "girlfriendless" with "delivery rider" as if being a gig worker makes you some kind of undesirable loser. Nice casual elitism.

Did I miss something? At what point have women stopped looking for a higher income man?

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#312

So, there's a lot to be said about Hitler and fascism and propaganda and all the other fascinating topics Orwell brings up here, but I'd just like to point out how routinely excellent Orwell's analysis is. Of course I mostly see the best bits brought out and dusted off, no doubt he did mediocre stuff as well, but it is worth noticing how often it turns out that Orwell, nearly a century on, still has plenty in his wri…

Any recommendations for other writings and analyses by Orwell?

- Christopher Hitchens (possibly THE biggest expert on Orwell in the late 20th century, and a great intellectual IMHO) on "Why Orwell Matters" + Q&A (2002) [0].

- Why I write [1]

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I-FfrkGiWQ

[1]: https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#313
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to this is sports. War is competition through violence. When you remove the violence you get peaceful competition. It satisfies the tribal urge to fight things different than you, but also encourages healthy behaviors. Respect for your opponent. Accepting loss. Recognizing your weaknesses and working to improve them.

I'm with you in the abstract, but where I live there's toxic culture around sports that made it unpalatable for me as a kid. Back then what turned me off was belligerent parents on the sidelines yelling at the children, but the symptoms actually go way beyond that one little thing. (Conflating excellence with dominance is another example.)

This is a valid observation, however I wonder if the best frame is to consider if that toxic culture is preferable to a warmongering society.

It may be that some level of toxic behavior is inescapable when humans release their tribal competition instinct. And if team sports is construed as a war-replacement, perhaps it is a better (though not perfect) mechanism to absorb that toxicity.

Maybe there are better-still options to absorb tribal toxicity, bit I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#314
post #177
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, usually you get the cult of war and cult of sports together as a bundle.

Do people regularly mass murder each other over sports? Because that's the stakes we're talking about here in context. Brawling and screaming over a sport is much preferred to bombing and poisoning.

Both sports and war leverage the same dynamics, just as individual athleticism improves one's chances in a fight. Neither are ends in themselves.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#315

Orwell omitted a few details: Hitler never had a majority in the Reichstag/german parliament - he benefited from the enmity between the Social democrats and the Communist. I mean a popular front, like in France of 1936 would have stopped them. The German soial dems and communist were mortal enemies, because the social dems shot a lot of communists in the aftermath of the Kapp putsch. Also Hitler had the massive suppo…

IDK if I'd call that an "omission." There was a political system, and Hitler came to power within it. France still has a political norm of banding together to defeat populist far right parties, and an electoral system that lends to it.

The fact remains that Fascism, Hitler, and Nazism was popular and that was key to achieving power . This is essay is about that. Why, despite promising burdens and hardship, was Fascism popular. It just isn't about electoral tactics, negative politics or such. I'm sure he would have conceded the point that any given elections could have been determined by such tactics.

I agree with Orwell. The tactical-electoral subject isn't really that interesting, even if it is/was consequential. The point about promising voters burdens, hardship, & "military virtues" is interesting.

For example, I think this gives us clues about Russian communism's decline (also in the West, ideologically) after Stalin.

^Also I doubt Orwell was against "popular front politics." (a) I've read a lot of Orwell and can't recall any statement that suggests this and (b) Orwell himself volunteered in a communist militia against fascism. He himself was a socialist. If you're willing to join a communist militia to fight fascism, surely you'd be OK with joined ticket.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to this is sports. War is competition through violence. When you remove the violence you get peaceful competition. It satisfies the tribal urge to fight things different than you, but also encourages healthy behaviors. Respect for your opponent. Accepting loss. Recognizing your weaknesses and working to improve them.

> The answer to this is sports. War is competition through violence. Absolutely not. Sports is competition through violence, as well. Watch a game of American football, or ice hockey, or basketball for that matter and be able to say otherwise with a straight face. The answer is cooperative, not competitive, activities.

Then how do you satisfy the real need for an outlet for aggression? I personally did this with motorcycle racing, which is competitive but mostly non violent. Cooperative activities are great and I really enjoy them, but don’t scratch the same itch.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to this is sports. War is competition through violence. When you remove the violence you get peaceful competition. It satisfies the tribal urge to fight things different than you, but also encourages healthy behaviors. Respect for your opponent. Accepting loss. Recognizing your weaknesses and working to improve them.

> The answer to this is sports. War is competition through violence. Absolutely not. Sports is competition through violence, as well. Watch a game of American football, or ice hockey, or basketball for that matter and be able to say otherwise with a straight face. The answer is cooperative, not competitive, activities.

There's no 'answer', violent competition is always going to exist because at some point the aggregate costs are lower than other forms of competition. A world completely dominated by war is bad, but so is a world completely dominated by productivity, which just creates and infantilized society.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#318
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought of Wall Street and what goes on there to be our substitute for war.

Big Law too

True for both, and these are actually unhealthy outlets because it means everyone essentially lives under sanctions and oppression while norms fray altogether.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> aspiring elites who viewed themselves as oppressed losers out of a misguided sense of entitlement. Yep, sounds like the disaffected white males who kill others or themselves in droves, despite often having better conditions than (less aspirant/entitled) non-white males.

If you honestly reflect on your comment, do you see anything wrong with it? When I read it, I got very angry at what I perceive to be pointed racism. But I'd like to try to step away from that and instead of lashing out, to understand your perspective more. Would you mind explaining your thinking a bit more?

The point being made (as I understand it) is that given that it is true (if you believe the national statistical authorities of the relevant western countries) that young white men are often substantially better off than young men of colour (even when controlling for all non-ethnicity relating factors), it is perhaps unexpected that the suicide rates for those groups would be higher. Adopting the principle of charity, I think we can assume that the original poster does not mean to in any way minimise the plight of desperate people who are suffering from mental health conditions. Instead, I think it is an interesting question as to why suicide rates are so much higher (and at least in the UK this is not an exaggeration - see e.g. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...) than those of groups whose material circumstances are worse.

p.s. I am aware that suicide is not a function solely of material circumstance (and material circumstance relative to other people's)

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#320
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this counts as Godwin's law given the context, but: What exactly is your solution to the sort of naked aggression by Hitler in WW2? Is war not a solution to that problem?

Lets translate your question. What exactly is your solution to the sort of [war] by Hitler in [war]. Is war not a solution to [war]?

No, those things are not synonymous.
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