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Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

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311–320 of 423 posts

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what would you say to people who currently feel the effects of these historical, and contemporary oppressions? I would have quoted me a bit more generously. This is what I would tell them (and myself, since we are all oppressed, and all of our ancestors were oppressed, at some point, by someone): >We cannot, in each successive generation, reform ourselves to undo the injustices of the past, not only because it's pra…

Fair enough - I didn't mean to imply that you hadn't said that, the quote was merely to delimit the area I was addressing. Am I correct, then, in thinking your response to people currently harmed by social structures they have no choice in interacting with is, basically, "I agree that this sucks, but I don't support changing anything to fix it."?

> Am I correct, then, in thinking your response to people currently harmed by social structures they have no choice in interacting with is, basically, "I agree that this sucks, but I don't support changing anything to fix it."?

I don’t know about the guy you’re asking but the way I would tackle this question is, first by point out in some cases the “harm” is only perceived.

To give you an example of this, a claim often made is “trans kids are being harmed due to lack of access to hormones/surgery”. I find this revolting. I would consider, for this example at least, the current system is doing good in protecting them, certainly it is not harming them.

For me and many people, changing this would mean creating a social structure that is harmful.

What will happen if the system is now changed to allow children to take hormones but in a few decades this will be broadly considered a harmful social structure?

Another point I would bring up is, there are various ways problems can be addressed. Asking for change begs the question what change precisely? It is very possible agreement on the existence of the problem can be reached while the solution remains contentious.

A more accurate description of reality would be I think “Some problems exist and some problems are nothing more than attempts at getting power, privilege or attention. And while the problems that are generally agreed upon to exist should be fixed, the solution is often unclear and the proposals open up their own set of problems”

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really vague answer. Can you elaborate? What happened 500 years ago that explains why the authors are right in their attempt to ban certain ethnic groups from certain ideas?

The West violently occupied most of the non-Western world and forced its culture on to those peoples.

Let's apply that same reasoning on a different scale.

Rome violently occupied most of Europe and forced its culture on to those peoples. Therefore, most Europeans may eat as much pizza as they like. But if an Italian so much as looks at a croissant or wears pants, they've done A Cultural Appropriation.

Seems sensible to me!

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#313
post #281

"Chen: What we see is the erasure of Buddhism as a religion or tradition that Asians or Asian Americans can claim or identify with." She writes from a race-essentialist framing to a degree and that drives me crazy. "white Americans" "white Westerners" x6 There's a sort of cultural appropriation shame being layered here---as if it's bad to have light skin and be interested in Buddhism, or adapt Buddhism to your existi…

Somehow these arguments about cultural appropriation only ever go one way. I've never heard anyone claim that it's cultural appropriation when non-Westerners adopt -- and benefit from -- various Western schools of thought. I've never felt the urge to gate-keep, say, the germ theory of disease from non-Westerners. What right do I have to do that? What right does the author have to gate-keep Buddhism? Why do people do…

An ironic one seen was a black person stopping and scolding a white person for wearing dreadlocks as some sort of cultural theft, but she herself was wearing a Scottish weave sweater and speaking English.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#314
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obsessing over injustices you have no control over is neither normal nor healthy.

Except we do have control over it, if we didn't people wouldn't be complaining so loudly about being shunned for the biggotted and ignorant crap that comes out of their mouths.

Except we do have control over it, if we didn't people wouldn't be complaining so loudly about being shunned for the sinful and heretical crap that comes out of their mouths.

A puritan explaining the importance of enforcing moral cohesion - cca 1750

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#315
post #281

"Chen: What we see is the erasure of Buddhism as a religion or tradition that Asians or Asian Americans can claim or identify with." She writes from a race-essentialist framing to a degree and that drives me crazy. "white Americans" "white Westerners" x6 There's a sort of cultural appropriation shame being layered here---as if it's bad to have light skin and be interested in Buddhism, or adapt Buddhism to your existi…

Somehow these arguments about cultural appropriation only ever go one way. I've never heard anyone claim that it's cultural appropriation when non-Westerners adopt -- and benefit from -- various Western schools of thought. I've never felt the urge to gate-keep, say, the germ theory of disease from non-Westerners. What right do I have to do that? What right does the author have to gate-keep Buddhism? Why do people do…

On going the other way, there is/was quite a reaction on China half-ripping off Disney (!) characters in regional parks or goods. I'd argue China making "knock-off"s or "stealing our IP" is pretty close to that as well.

Then, it's pretty hard to culturally appropriate Christianity when it's setup with a doctrine of expansion and push to fit everywhere it can. That was basically the premise of colonialism in the early days. Same way we wouldn't be crying rivers because Asians countries embraced Coca Cola.

> germ theory of disease

Hasn't that been a two-way street for basically the beginning of times ? The Silk Road was as much about exchanging theories and culture than exchanging goods. There's no discussion the very base of our own culture and science is heavily influenced by the early advancement of eastern countries.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a twisted version of reality you just presented. The US has in no way, shape or form returned to the "status quo in most advanced countries". Perhaps with some convoluted rhetoric you can argue that, but in practice the difference is undeniable. Policies regarding abortion have one gone in one direction in recent decades (in both advanced and less advanced economies) and there is only a single massive outlier th…

You’re confusing the concept of “status quo” (the current state) with the direction of change. Roe took the US outside the mainstream among developed countries. Just a couple of years after Roe , the German constitutional court found that legalized abortion violated the Basic Law’s right to life. In the intervening decades, only a handful of other high courts recognized abortion as a right, rather than a legislative…

abortion has been a natural right for thousands of years. women cerainly don’t need you nor the state to intercede in what is essentially a right to bodily autonomy.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#317
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For Hindus, Buddha was just one of the 10 avatars of Vishnu The Bhagavatam mentions 22 avatars of Vishnu. The arbitrary selection of 10 which sometimes include Buddha is a later day invention. > never meant to be a separate religion but just took Hindu teachings on meditation and enlightenment and got adapted into another "ism". This is revisionist nonsense.

There are many more avatars but the dashavatars are considered most well known. Ah the revionist calling out revisionism , the irony of the comment on isms

> dashavatars are considered most well known.

Right, so well known that there isn't even a consensus as to which of them constitute Dashavatara. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#318
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow these arguments about cultural appropriation only ever go one way. I've never heard anyone claim that it's cultural appropriation when non-Westerners adopt -- and benefit from -- various Western schools of thought. I've never felt the urge to gate-keep, say, the germ theory of disease from non-Westerners. What right do I have to do that? What right does the author have to gate-keep Buddhism? Why do people do…

An ironic one seen was a black person stopping and scolding a white person for wearing dreadlocks as some sort of cultural theft, but she herself was wearing a Scottish weave sweater and speaking English.

Are you describing a kid living in the UK/US wearing their school uniform scolding an adult wearing dreadlocks ?

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#319
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key point is that it becomes "appropriation"--vs cultural mixing or exchange--when the ideas are removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent. I'm far from an expert, but it seems like a reasonable argument to advance that the linkage of Buddhist practices with corporate and material advancement--and the removal of spiritual or ethical c…

The exact same thing can be said about anything. Judaism appropriated pre existing ideas and disrespected them by insisting on a single god. Christianity appropriated judaism and disrespected it by removing covenant practices such as circumcision and adding new ideas such as the kingdom of heaven being available to anyone not just “the chosen people”. Islam appropriated christianity and disrespected it by demoting Je…

Islam is Christianity that goes “back to the roots” X Buddhism from Afghanistan/Eastern Persia (including the pilgrimage and washing ritual). Trinitarianism is only one branch of Christianity and not the main one. It was delicately made into the main one much later.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#320
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Hindus, claiming everything in the subcontinent as their own seems like a favorite passtime. Jainism, Buddhism are not part of Hinduism and never were.

There are thousands of sects of Hinduism and most still list themselves as such until the British came in

The word Hindu itself is an exonym. What you are doing is playing language games by conflating everything Indian with Hindu.
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