Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes • Hacker News Board

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#311

Post by ssnistfajen » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 7:13 PM UTC

autoexec wrote: post #303

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world needs less pseudoscience misinfo, not more. Fully agreed. I appreciate the stern yet information-laden correction. It's certainly much better than hearing specious claims based on conjecture/misinformation that only seems plausible to the uninformed. Also, IMO it did not sound "over-the-top" or "aggressive" at all. Some people are just so absurdly oversensitive that a simply direct method of speaking (or…

the "It's not some weird conspiracy aimed at making modern humans "weak"." bit seemed a bit much (and out of nowhere unless there was an edit in the original)

The insinuation in the very original comment that modern humans are abandoning fermented foods en masse and "even becoming" lactose intolerant (as if adulthood lactose intolerance is somehow a new condition rather than the default for pretty much all mammals in existence) was clearly in-line with the pseudoscientific conspiracist misinformation wave that modern lifestyle supported by technological advances is making humans regress somehow, rather than elevating overall levels of health and turning previous morbidity factors into manageable nuisances.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

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Post by NoPicklez » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 1:23 AM UTC

dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #308

NoPicklez wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Micronutrients as vitamins and minerals from fruits and veg? Yes absolutely, they’re essential. The difference here is that we don’t need a lot of them, not like macronutrients so the majority of us are likely getting our vitamin and mineral intake okay. However deficiencies in certain vitamins can cause problems down the line, it just depends on how deficient you are. Some people also struggle to absorb particular v…

>Micronutrients as vitamins and minerals from fruits and veg? Yes absolutely, they’re essential. And, why are they essential? ( no, I'm not trying to be funny, or feigning ignorance). You can make your answer really short, if you do answer.

No all good I do appreciate the questioning. Makes us think.

Without going back to my textbooks a good example is iron deficiency, if you are Iron deficient your body cannot effectively transport oxygen in the blood. As it is part of hemoglobin which carries oxygen around the body. Without it you will develop Anemia. Women experience Iron deficiency symptoms much more than men due to menstruation.

Furthermore, Calcium which is essential for bone health, its absorption is aided by iron as well.

Vitamin D, a common deficiency in people that work night shift jobs or underground in the mining industry. Usually need to take supplements.

I do wish I could link some studies to further illustrate "the why" but I don't have enough time. But overall, we don't need much of these at all and we certainly don't NEED to hit our recommended daily intake everyday. The tricky part is if you're quite deficient in one vitamin, it can impact your adsorption of other nutrients as well which can cause larger impacts.

One of the challenges with the food and nutrition industry is the marketing around "if you take vitamins and minerals they will change your life". For the majority of us they won't, but they might if you're deficient. They aren't something you can take that will make you wake up tomorrow magically a better and happier person. Which is how they're marketed, like all things sensationalised.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

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Post by epgui » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:27 PM UTC

wizofaus wrote: post #302

mlsu wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The brain and digestive system are very closely linked. I think to make an "AI" on par with simulating the brain, you would need to simulate the gut first. And probably vice versa!

Not sure I agree, but accept it's not my area of expertise. We don't necessarily want to simulate the human brain the way it does actually function biologically, rather simulate the its most useful behaviors, which are hard to see as being intrinsically linked to the workings of the gut.

There's an imperfect truth to the comment you're replying to.

You're right that it's unnecessary to emulate the brain down to its finest implementation details, down to the molecule or even down to the cell.

However, I contend that it's essentially impossible to create a "relatable AI" (an AI that behaves and thinks like humans do) without proper consideration of embodiment. A large part of why the brain works the way it does, at a macro level, emerges from the vehicle it's in, and broadly speaking both its afferents/inputs and efferents/outputs.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#314

Post by m10i » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

ssnistfajen wrote: post #149

asdff wrote: post #45

Pretty much every culture around the world 100 years ago had some staple fermented food. Nowadays, a lot of people in western culture at least outright refuse yogurt or other fermented foods like saurkraut or pickled cabbage that used to be staples in these people's ancestor's diets a few generations ago. People are becoming even lactose intolerant. You have to fertilize your microbes so to speak and eat these sorts…

Lactase persistence is regulated by genetic mutations, not gut microbes. The negative symptoms of lactose intolerance is exactly due to lactose being able to reach the gut and making the microbes there flourish by digesting lactose, creating large quantities of gas and other metabolic byproducts that cause flatulence, diarrhea, etc. People don't spontaneously become lactose intolerant just because they stopped eating…

Would you be able to recommend a yogurt brand I could try out solely for the gut-related health benefits? Or if not yogurt specifically, anything that might even be better.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#315

Post by goatcode » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 9:48 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #69

goatcode wrote: post #5

>people in U.S. cities...people in less developed parts of the world What about people in the US who are not in cities? That's the more interesting comparison to me. Why would that be left out?

> What about people in the US who are not in cities? That's the more interesting comparison to me. Why would that be left out? At least in the US, my lay-intuition is that you wouldn't see much of a difference between average Americans between urban, suburban, and rural settings. That's perhaps worth testing, but I think the much more interesting test would be between wealth and class groups. (Again, wild speculation…

>At least in the US, my lay-intuition is that you wouldn't see much of a difference between average Americans between urban, suburban, and rural settings.

It wouldn't surprise me, but that would call into question the entire notion that the article is attempting to create -- that urban (and therefore non-urban) is the key factor in the differences it mentions in gut flora.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

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Post by mulmen » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 9:29 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #269

mulmen wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You answered the wrong question. The article reproduced a claim without substantiation. I didn’t conclude that the effects are benign. I claimed that this article does nothing to assist me in deciding if they are.

Why should article assist you in deciding of they are? That decision is not science. That decision is politics.

The article should contribute something other than being a glorified bulleted list. Why bother writing anything if in the end there is no substance?

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#317

Post by ssnistfajen » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 11:29 AM UTC

m10i wrote: post #314

ssnistfajen wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lactase persistence is regulated by genetic mutations, not gut microbes. The negative symptoms of lactose intolerance is exactly due to lactose being able to reach the gut and making the microbes there flourish by digesting lactose, creating large quantities of gas and other metabolic byproducts that cause flatulence, diarrhea, etc. People don't spontaneously become lactose intolerant just because they stopped eating…

Would you be able to recommend a yogurt brand I could try out solely for the gut-related health benefits? Or if not yogurt specifically, anything that might even be better.

Highly dependent on what local brands are available. Look for unflavoured kefir or plain yogurt that isn't 0% fat.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

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Post by bardworx » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 1:23 AM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #221

bardworx wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: I grew up on a farm in former USSR. We milked cows daily, when I was a kid. Back then, I never knew about lactose intolerance but to be fair, this wasn’t a topic discussed. Considering I know nothing about this, and you seem like you do, are there any studies that looked at links between lactose intolerance and fresh milk produce? Reason I say “fresh” is because we never refrigerated the milk. In the…

Fresh milk is linked with some viruses that can cause autoimmune diseases like type-1 diabetes and bunch of other stuff. Always makes my eyes roll when I hear people driving hours just to get fresh farm milk.

Thanks!

I didn’t know that type-1 diabetes was an autoimmune disease.