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The SQLite Code of Ethics

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Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#311

Post by rebeccaskinner »

joannanewsom wrote: post #307
rebeccaskinner wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s be blunt, when people complain about lack of a diversity of thought/opinion, it’s almost always a complaint that they can’t be a bigot. Of course nobody says that so directly- they use dog whistles so that people who are being attacked know to leave while the bigots retain a veinier of civility so they can radicalize others by saying “look how hostile and irrational that group got over my innocuous sounding sta…

"And so when I hear, for example, folks on college campuses saying, “We’re not going to allow somebody to speak on our campus because we disagree with their ideas or we feel threatened by their ideas,” I think that’s a recipe for dogmatism and I think you’re not going to be as effective." - President Obama, complaining he can't be a bigot. https://www.thefire.org/obamas-abc-news-interview-transcript...

> - President Obama, complaining he can't be a bigot.

If you a actually read the article you quoted, the main argument he’s making is essentially “well, they may be bigots, but you need to learn to argue with bigots if you want to make progress”. That may or may not be true on a college campus (and at a public college the argument is likely immaterial because a government run institution is, and should be, bound by free speech in ways that private forums are not and should not be).

Open source projects and technical communities are different- they have different goals, needs to operate under different constraints, and so should behave differently.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#312

Post by bardan »

defenestration wrote: post #54
wyager wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If software engineering was available as a monastic vocation, we'd probably have a lot of significantly higher-quality software available. I would much rather use something written by a stylite with an esolang compiler than shat out by 100 poorly-coordinated javascript devs at MEGACORP.

There is a truth hidden in here. I would love to spend time at a monastry and code.

Coding in the scriptorium, no less.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#313

Post by logifail »

woodruffw wrote: post #305
rayiner wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole paragraph makes it even clearer that he’s talking about people who would shut down free debate, starting with “denouncing all argument.” He’s actually talking about how progressives are today—ranging from declaring some topics beyond debate to “punch a Nazi.”

I think this is the paradox's greatest weakness: whataboutism :-) Karl Popper is not talking about today's progressives, because he died in 1994. The closest extension we can reasonably draw does not include them either, because Popper exclusively identified totalitarian ideologies with reactionary beliefs[1]. It's very easy to use the PoT as a blunt weapon, and there are some embarrassing applications of it on the p…

> none are quite as embarrassing as suggesting that Popper might seriously entertain "free debate" with a Nazi

(This really is a genuine question) who is to be allowed to determine if our opponents are that, and hence worthy of what one might call preemptive intolerance?

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#315

Post by bardan »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #102
wyager wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If software engineering was available as a monastic vocation, we'd probably have a lot of significantly higher-quality software available. I would much rather use something written by a stylite with an esolang compiler than shat out by 100 poorly-coordinated javascript devs at MEGACORP.

I dunno about monastic programming getting a lot of takers. Don't forget that there's usually a vow of poverty involved; fully loaded Macbook Pros or decked out 16 core Threadripper workstations are not part of the picture.

I'm imagining it more like the work suckless do. Simplicity, beauty. Multiple cores are an extravagance.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#316

Post by woodruffw »

logifail wrote: post #313
woodruffw wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the paradox's greatest weakness: whataboutism :-) Karl Popper is not talking about today's progressives, because he died in 1994. The closest extension we can reasonably draw does not include them either, because Popper exclusively identified totalitarian ideologies with reactionary beliefs[1]. It's very easy to use the PoT as a blunt weapon, and there are some embarrassing applications of it on the p…

> none are quite as embarrassing as suggesting that Popper might seriously entertain "free debate" with a Nazi (This really is a genuine question) who is to be allowed to determine if our opponents are that, and hence worthy of what one might call preemptive intolerance?

That is the eternal question. However, I will submit for consideration that the person we're talking about when we use the phrase "punch a Nazi" is, in fact, a neo-Nazi[1].

Dealing more abstractly: I personally think we are justified in practicing "preemptive intolerance" when the party in question (1) has a bad faith (not merely faithless) relationship with the "language" of our political systems, and (2) demonstrates repeated intent to employ the mechanisms of our systems to subvert them. Both conditions are necessary; the absence of the latter makes the individual a LARPer.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Spencer

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#317

Post by barrysteve »

iasay wrote: post #125
claytongulick wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You trust a faceless corporation more than someone who demonstrates the ability to learn, grow and adapt their thinking over time? You and I see this differently.

The corporation is more likely to be accountable from experience.

I shouldn't ask, but what happened to drive a negative view of faith?

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#318

Post by woodruffw »

rayiner wrote: post #309
woodruffw wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the paradox's greatest weakness: whataboutism :-) Karl Popper is not talking about today's progressives, because he died in 1994. The closest extension we can reasonably draw does not include them either, because Popper exclusively identified totalitarian ideologies with reactionary beliefs[1]. It's very easy to use the PoT as a blunt weapon, and there are some embarrassing applications of it on the p…

I didn’t say he was talking about progressives today, I said what he talked about is applicable to progressives today. When Popper uses the word “tolerance” he’s talking specifically about people who don’t tolerate a free society with free debate, not people who express intolerant views. For example, the Trump voter who is intolerant of immigrants isn’t “denouncing all argument” about immigration. It’s progressives w…

I've never met a progressive who "denounced all argument" about immigration. Instead, they seem tired of the same handful of (xenophobic) tropes that get trotted out during national discussions around immigration policy: immigrants as social burdens, as criminals, as drug mules, as "anchors" for some dogwhistled demographic replacement, &c.

Those tropes (and the reactionary politics that underlie them) strike me as precisely the kind of intolerance that Popper might have concerned himself with.

(Separately: it's unclear how progressives have satisfied the "intolerance of intolerance" condition here. Are you claiming that progressives have successfully won some on that front of the culture war? Current policy suggests otherwise[1].)

[1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-biden-first-year-ti...

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#319

Post by joannanewsom »

rebeccaskinner wrote: post #311
joannanewsom wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And so when I hear, for example, folks on college campuses saying, “We’re not going to allow somebody to speak on our campus because we disagree with their ideas or we feel threatened by their ideas,” I think that’s a recipe for dogmatism and I think you’re not going to be as effective." - President Obama, complaining he can't be a bigot. https://www.thefire.org/obamas-abc-news-interview-transcript...

> - President Obama, complaining he can't be a bigot. If you a actually read the article you quoted, the main argument he’s making is essentially “well, they may be bigots, but you need to learn to argue with bigots if you want to make progress”. That may or may not be true on a college campus (and at a public college the argument is likely immaterial because a government run institution is, and should be, bound by f…

I have read it many times. I really like it, which is why I quoted it. I also think moderating communities is a hard problem and I don't think private forums should be open to all forms of speech. In fact I only read forums which are heavily moderated. What I disagree with is your statement that

"...when people complain about lack of a diversity of thought/opinion, it’s almost always a complaint that they can’t be a bigot."

Supporting diversity of opinions and being a bigot are very different things. As can be seen with Obama. Labeling any one who disagrees with you on the topic of free speech as a bigot is A) rude, dismissive and B) not an effective argument. Its easy to think you're right when you assume the other side is racist.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#320

Post by knighthack »

adamgordonbell wrote: post #18

Before I got to talk with Richard, I found many things online about his Christian values and public domain license and how odd it was. And I thought this was THE fascinating thing about Richard that led to the database and other things. But then I talked to him. He's a great engineer but a regular guy running a business around a thing he built. He gets to be a bit whimsical because he can. He can use his own source c…

I specifically adore Richard _because_ he's a good Christian man (and I say this as a non-Christian) and a great engineer.

I'm happy that he's found a way to integrate his values into his products. Richard is not enforcing his beliefs on anyone; moreover the values espoused in the Code seem fair to any reasonable mind. It asks us to do good, and calls for good human/humane values whatever your religion or ideology or spirituality. How can that be wrong?

Often times these days in tech it's all about progress, liberal ideologies, and there's no sense of values or ethics rooted in anything but money. SQLite's code of ethics is a refreshing change.

SQLite itself is also an amazing piece of engineering, that I use daily and can't express enough thanks to him for.

P/S: I love your podcast! Have heard so many great episodes that changed my mind.

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