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Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

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311–320 of 329 posts

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His claim is that Washington has written and passed a law that binds Microsoft's operations outside Washington state, which I'm pretty sure would violate the commerce clause. The commerce clause does not prevent states from having laws which impact interstate commerce unless: (1) They are preempted by federal exercise of commerce clause powers (though that's really a supremacy clause issue), or (2) they discriminat…

Wouldn't this qualify under the dormant clause if it protected firms in Washington state by making it uneconomical for recruiting firms from elsewhere in the country to enter the Washington labour market? This isn't just about listing wages for positions in Washington state - it would be viral and would contaminate a business's operations everywhere. It would be very cozy for recruiting businesses that operate in Was…

> Wouldn’t this qualify under the dormant clause if it protected firms in Washington state by making it uneconomical for recruiting firms from elsewhere in the country to enter the Washington labour market?

The upthread claim is that it globally binds Washington entities, not that it globally binds foreign entities doing business in Washington. If it did the latter, and the practical impact was as described, it might be considered an undue burden. It might not. Its a lot easier to find cases finding substantial but non-discriminatory burdens on interstate commerce not to be violations of than to find ones holding them in violation of the dormant commerce clause, and this clearly isn't a discriminatory burden in the sense that it would place restrictions on out-of-state actors that are not placed on Washington-based actors.

> This would kind of be like the Exxon case, but if Maryland had tried to prevent Exxon from having gas stations ANYWHERE in the US if they started doing business in Maryland.

I think that’s a wildly invalid analogy, and, in any case, what you want in an analogy to make your case is an analogy to a case where the courts found a dormant commerce clause violation, not a analogy to a hypothetical variant of one where they did not where you conjecture that they might have ruled differently.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not accurate. The board meets maybe 4 times a year. Let's be generous and say they work one full calendar month of the year. That means their pro-rated stipend is actually 1.2 M/year. Google employees who only choose to work one month of the year can do so, but the median salary would be 16k dollars. AFAIK board members don't put in a month's worth of work so that 1.2 M/year is an underestimate. They also can…

The pro-rated version is irrelevant, since the comment was talking about board salaries going down in order to fund higher salaries elsewhere.

I did not read it as "in order", but rather "and". So both happen, but I did not see a causation in the post.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#313
post #251
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2022, you have to assume a fair amount of activity on popular boards/forums/subreddits/twitter etc. has been purposefully influenced by nefarious parties. In more concrete terms, I do think there are a fair amount of bots/paid-commenters on HN who push for anti-progressive agenda which helps maintain status quo.

I mean, you don’t even need to reach that far. Many commenters here are either currently on the employer side of a salary negotiation, or imagine that they will be some day.

The temporarily embarrassed millionaires ;-)

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#314
post #3

This is the way. We need more of this. I'm at a point where if a recruiter messages me "about an exciting opportunity" without any salary information, he/she will not get a response. While there are some jobs that maybe I would consider a pay cut for, I generally want to make more money because that allows me to invest more so I can be free one day.

No not necessarily. Let me go over some scenarios: Bob contributes 1. I contribute 1.25. Units don't matter, I contribute 25% more. It used to be maybe the salary band is $100k to $130k. Bob gets $100k. I get $125k. My employer gets a total value of 2.25 for $225k. Now my employer has to disclose salaries and has 2 options: 1) Don't make out salaries the same, Bob quits, now the employer has only 1.25 when they need…

[citation needed]. Is there no market here? No other companies which sees the opportunity to grab you?

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#315
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not sure why the company is responsible at an individual level for what’s going on in the Bay Area. No, but it's responsible for not paying well, while mandating that everyone working for it must live in the most expensive region in the country. > If you’re mad at anyone, walk down to city hall and tell them to build more housing. Or walk across the street to a competitor. It is the Bay area, after all.

Mandating? Every employee at the company voluntarily agreed to the terms of their employment, the wage, the location, etc. prior to starting.

It's a mandate. They could have mandated that remote work is acceptable. They didn't. They are now surprised that people are leaving.

Just like how if you don't like the mandates issued by your government, you are free to move to a different country. Or to petition it to change them. They are still mandates, though, despite you choosing out of your own free will to submit to them, by virtue of not leaving.

This website also has mandates about how its posters are expected to behave, that you submit to - despite being here voluntarily.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#316

It's incredible in these comments that so many of you who work in the industry on the employee side are arguing against having more transparency for the employee, and for having more leverage in the negotiating process for the employer instead. I want all the advantage as an employee that I can get. Any secret withheld from me is not to my advantage.

You also see this sentiment with other topics related to hiring, like working 2+ jobs. Somewhat amusing.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not accurate. The board meets maybe 4 times a year. Let's be generous and say they work one full calendar month of the year. That means their pro-rated stipend is actually 1.2 M/year. Google employees who only choose to work one month of the year can do so, but the median salary would be 16k dollars. AFAIK board members don't put in a month's worth of work so that 1.2 M/year is an underestimate. They also can…

We're discussing whether redistributing the board stipends would change individual salaries and the clear answer is it will not, even in the most extreme situations. But, to your point regarding prorated comp: I've been a salaried employee at a company like Google. I've also been a board member. First, like many senior tech employees my total comp market rate is in the seven figures. A pro-rated 1.2M stipend would be…

>but I assure you no one is seeking out board seat retainers as a way to get rich.

Can they be leveraged for networking to get a CEO job in the future?

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you know to ask for compensation up front.

Everyone always says this is a RED FLAG, so I've hesitated to do this myself. But I value my time more than I care about being "flagged" as a dissident against company interests. So I do that now with the initial HR interview. The energy put into this can be completely insane as per the GP's experience. What we need is just a certificate that proves competency, so we can remove all these exams, quizzes and foolishnes…

Indians are already making life hell for US corporations. That’s one of the reasons they’re looking more to East Europe even though they’re more expensive.

I used to work for Microsoft and was prevented from starting bigger projects as they didn’t want to expand the US team, instead wanting to expand their Chinese and Eastern European teams as they were cheaper.

Microsoft is a big, inefficient, and amoral company. You could have taken advantage of that and once inside and after a few years of demostrable good work and in making friends you might have been able to score an internal move to the US with the associated pay bump. I’m not saying it’ll be easy but there aren’t many ways to 5x your salary. US kinda sucks right now but money can generally shield you from a lot of that.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Centralization is just a tool (if methods of organization are tools). Sometimes, it's clearly the right choice (where are program settings settings? `~/.config`). It's also VERY simple. If all you want is client/server version control, and you don't mind the constraints, SVN's UX and learning curve beats git's by a long shot. Decentralization buys you flexibility, but entails tons of complexity.

your case to prove centralization is sometimes good is SVN over git I can not envision any scenario in which I would choose SVN over git

If you don't need decentralized version control, why wouldn't you? Have you ever used SVN? It's much easier than git. :D
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