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Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#311

Post by SiempreViernes »

belter wrote: post #307
prof-dr-ir wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your efforts but I am sorry to say that I am still not convinced. The Protonmail link is not a primary source but let me dignify it with a response anyway. The authors of that blog post themselves admit that the resolution they link to "is non-binding and does not provide any specifics for new laws or regulations and, on the surface, seems fairly innocuous." They then go on to say how actually it is rea…

And there you have the press release of today: "Questions and Answers –New rules to fight child sexual abuse" https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_... Exactly as predicted in this thread it's a "think of the children" and at the same time also as mentioned by others in this thread, mandated obligations but preparing for the excuse of "we never actually asked for this way of doing it" "Does the…

> It will be probably 6 to 12 months before this is extended to "Terrorism"

Alright, I'll take that bet if you got actually got the conviction to stake your HN-account.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#312

Post by reedjosh »

dijit wrote: post #286
reedjosh wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is full of this kind of “drop bomb” and run crap. Hello. I usually keep responding to people. I'm not from the EU, so if you disagree with me I'll respond. It's not unlikely I'm wrong. I am a crazy anti-government guy though, so you've got me there.

Well, I'm going to take this argument in good faith then and assume you're not trolling, but I'll be extremely disappointed if I'm proven wrong. I'll start by saying that the EU does have issues, I can talk fairly about what the EU even is first, why it evolved and then talk about those issues as fairly as I can. FD: I am pro-EU but it's not like I can't understand that people can have exactly the same information as…

Thank you for the well thought response. I'll try to respond in kind, but it may be a day or so. Particularly as I want to attempt a researched opinion, but the EU is not an area I know a ton about.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#313

Post by hutzlibu »

belter wrote: post #264
logifail wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ms von der Leyen I'm deeply sceptical of Ms von der Leyen. Not least because of how she got her job. She manages to get the press to talk about the EU giving Ukraine "a speedy response" re: joining the EU[0][1][2] Then Macron says it will take "take decades"[3] [4] I'm sorry, but once you reach that threshold of political posturing, if von der Leyen promised that tomorrow is definitely Wednesday then I'd immediatel…

Ms von der Leyen career is a train wreck of non stopping disasters. It makes sense she would end up as the non-elected European Commission chief... "Ursula von der Leyen has always left a trail of disaster": https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-has... "The scandal hanging over Ursula von der Leyen": https://www.politico.eu/article/the-scandal-hanging-over-urs...

Well, it is an old saying/tradition by now, to banish incompetent politicians towards Brussels.

That solution was probably adequate, as long as the EU did not had any actual power.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#314

Post by Dracophoenix »

vinyl7 wrote: post #46
colinmhayes wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without government we at least had choice. I don't consider "give me your stuff or I beat you" a choice.

Only difference is now the government says "give me your stuff or I beat you" rather than your neighbor

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called "the People's Stick"'. - Mikhail Bakunin

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#315

Post by UnpossibleJim »

mcv wrote: post #305
UnpossibleJim wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the whole argument on the sacredness of life by the religious right is hypocritical as the new testament is anti war, and any justification of war doesn't come about until post 400 A.D. when the "saints" weigh in on the subjects. The apostles were pretty "hippy-ish" about it.[1] Their pro-life stance would hold A LOT more weight if they were out protesting wars and military spending, not to mention foreign oc…

How about opposition to the death penalty and support for good health care? That would be a lot more pro-life, and are things Jesus actually addressed: heal the sick, and "let he who is without sin throw the first stone". I'm Christian, but I see no biblical argument against abortion. I'm not a fan of abortion, mind you; I think any abortion is a tragedy on some level, and unwanted pregnancies are better prevented th…

>>unwanted pregnancies are better prevented than abortedI think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't agree with this statement. The narrative that abortion is used as a form of contraception is largely a false one, but accidents do happen. Most of the women who get abortions already have a child, surprisingly. [1] EDIT -> well, I was surprised, I guess I should say

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/14/upshot/who-ge...

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#316

Post by hutzlibu »

imtringued wrote: post #280
kvetching wrote: post #102

Complete and total invasion of privacy. They always choose the most egregious crime to push through a cecession of rights. If you oppose this, you are supporting pedophiles. But fuck them. Don't let them gaslight you. There are countless broken laws that could be caught if only they could see our data. How long until they force Google or Apple to report someone to the authorities if their GPS says they are travelling…

It is also generally an unsolvable crime. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to use the argument again and again.

Erm, there are actual solutions, like teachers and social workers who are not burned out and can pay attention to the kids - and act if they spot something weird.

But this solution would cost money.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#317

Post by orestarod »

schroeding wrote: post #50

I'm just tired, to be honest. Even if we prevent this exact law (proposal), a few years down the line there probably will be another attempt. And again, and again. Just like it happend with the mandatory data retention laws for ISPs. I really try to stay optimistic on this topic, but it's really hard. :/

Life is struggle, and I do not mean that in a pessimist way. If someone wants to take something from you, you just have to resist. Over and over and over, forever. Your life is meant to end anyway, no reason to give up sooner than that. It is of course logical to not have the energy and time to do everything and be everywhere. But whatever you do you keep moving.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#318

Post by dane-pgp »

tremon wrote: post #302
dane-pgp wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your honest answers. For what it's worth, I don't think you're a bad person for voting the way you did. > the EU didn't embody the principles it claimed to stand for (and of which I approved). But is it possible that you were holding it to a higher standard than you hold your own country to? > Moderating the atavistic instincts of other countries isn't a good reason for being in a political union. Turni…

especially considering the more proportional voting system used by the EU What do you mean by that, exactly? Because EU votes are only proportional by country; each country is allocated a fixed number of seats based on its population, and each country only votes for its own representation. A UK vote has zero effect on the Hungarian MEP distribution.

I meant that the system for electing MEPs (using the D'Hondt and STV methods) was more proportional than FPTP as used in UK general elections. Thus a UK vote in a European election was better reflected in the composition of MEPs elected (and thus the party of the European commission president) than an equivalent UK vote in a general election.

Actually, to be clear, I haven't compared the Gallagher index[0] values of UK general elections and UK elections of MEPs, so I accept the possibility that quirks of the two systems and the UK political scene might mean that the real world outcomes don't match the theory.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallagher_index

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#319

Post by Siira »

harabat wrote: post #192
sixhobbits wrote: post #21

Have to jump through a few links to get to the 'protest' part. > Protest now by contacting the responsible EU Commissioners! Experience shows that a phone call is more effective than e-mails or letters. Officially, the planned obligation for messaging and chat control is called “legislation to effectively tackle child sexual abuse online”. > If an office tries to redirect you to the EU Commissioner for Home Affairs (…

For those who won't read the article: it provides a few ways to protest [0] (contact Commissioners, request media to cover this issue, get active on social media) and offers a list of arguments [1] (such policies don't work against CSAM but make it worse, while better/more targeted methods are being ignored). If anyone has experience calling to protest, could they share it here? Otherwise, the simplest course of acti…

CSAM versus explicitly mandated mass surveillance, is there even a shred of doubt about which is more important? …

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#320

Post by Syonyk »

kvetching wrote: post #102

Complete and total invasion of privacy. They always choose the most egregious crime to push through a cecession of rights. If you oppose this, you are supporting pedophiles. But fuck them. Don't let them gaslight you. There are countless broken laws that could be caught if only they could see our data. How long until they force Google or Apple to report someone to the authorities if their GPS says they are travelling…

> How long until there is AI that can use your biometrics to determine if you are too impaired to drive?

That's an actual requirement in US vehicles in a few years.

https://nypost.com/2021/11/15/bidens-infrastructure-bill-to-...

> “To ensure the prevention of alcohol-impaired driving fatalities, advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology must be standard equipment in all new passenger motor vehicles,” the bill says in summing up the findings of Congressional research.

> “Not later than 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall issue a final rule prescribing a Federal motor vehicle safety standard … that requires passenger motor vehicles manufactured after the effective date of that standard to be equipped with advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology,”

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