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Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

bbc.com

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Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#311

Post by BjoernKW »

skinnymuch wrote: post #306
BjoernKW wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve listened to tens of hours if not hundreds and haven’t ever heard him talk about a single act of kindness or help he or his guests have ever done to strangers. In that case, you might want to listen to the episode with Will MacAskill (of effective altruism fame): https://tim.blog/2015/11/22/will-macaskill/ Many other guests who seem to be genuinely kind people come to mind as well (e.g., Derek Sivers, Seth Godi…

How does having one guest or a couple guests who may be good people, change the general issue? A couple of people vs the majority doesn’t change the general sentiment. It’s a common strategy for podcasters/big personalities and defenses of them to have examples of engaging with another side. Even those examples are few and far between compared to the norm. IE Joe Rogan or Lex Friedman having far more right wing or ri…

Well, that's not what the author of the parent comment wrote or seemed to imply.

As much as one example to the contrary might not automatically change a general sentiment or perception, one particular listener only having encountered what they perceive as narcissism or self-involved navel-gazing might just be down to sampling bias.

The point I was trying to make is that there clearly are examples from that particular podcast where guests at least aren't entirely motivated by selfish or narcissistic pursuits.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#312

Post by pqs »

zozbot234 wrote: post #298
pqs wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you must act on this love, and there are many ways, through our daily actions, but also through prayer. I think it should come quite natural to any devout Christian. My whole point is that I find it interesting, and surprising, how western psychologists are taking concepts from eastern religion, completely ignoring the western religious tradition.

Often they're "completely ignoring" the Eastern tradition as well. Meditation in a strict sense is not even that widespread in Eastern practice; it's generally practiced by monks, or perhaps by laity on a rare, focused spiritual retreat - so quite similar to mystical contemplative prayer in the West.

OK! I guess this is also true!

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#313

Post by infogulch »

id wrote: post #10
infogulch wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recent Dr K video tries to address this problem. I Meditated, Now I Don't Care Anymore - https://youtu.be/NnTLJtBr1zo

Is it good to not care?

To summarize the video: Not caring is neither good nor bad, it's just a very common outcome of successful meditation practice. It means it's time to go play the game of life with your newly matured observing mind, and to identify your karmas and complete them.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#314

Post by Spooky23 »

n3storm wrote: post #256
Spooky23 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are universal values that you find across many religions. Religion is a framework to help us find our moral way. But like anything, institutions are run by humans and sometimes go the wrong way, focused on dogma, enrichment or power.

Another widespread opinion is that religion is an structure created to manage and channel human espirituallity for the profit of "those who are able to talk/understand/explain/mediate with/to/from god(s)"

Both are valid/true positions.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#315

Post by WalterSear »

manmal wrote: post #223
WalterSear wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 4 hour work week presents an ideology of success by being a shitty person.

Please explain why one would be a shitty person if one tried to start a business that is sustainable on a few hours of work per week.

That wasn't the shitty part.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#316

Post by WalterSear »

NateEag wrote: post #236
manmal wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain why one would be a shitty person if one tried to start a business that is sustainable on a few hours of work per week.

I've not read the book, but IIUC _The Four Hour Workweek_ has as its central idea that you can outsource most of your actual work to other people while accruing most of the wealth those others are creating. Not exactly a mark of great compassion or kindness, if that's actually what's presented.

It goes deeper than that. He encourages this behaviour in all aspects of interactions - getting other people to look things up for you etc, while firewalling yourself from other people's requests for assistance, finding ways to be more efficient at your job and hiding this from your boss so you can use the time saving for your side hustle.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#317

Post by danielvaughn »

lukas099 wrote: post #234
ramraj07 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a week in Denver and boulder and continuously got the eerie vibe that every person I met who moved there, is an example of the most self centered person I would have met in any other situation elsewhere. I suppose the type of young person who’d move to CO “for the outdoors” is gonna select for the trend. Everything, including the assholish cycling, was indicative of that. Noped out of that place for this reas…

What is assholish cycling?

Acting like you own the road. Was a huge problem. I hate cars and refuse to own one, but I also hated the cyclists in Boulder.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#318

Post by danielvaughn »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #241
danielvaughn wrote: post #43

Having lived in Boulder CO for several years, which is basically the Mecca of Americanized mindfulness, I can attest that this is true. The most ardent practitioners that I met were invariably self obsessed.

> Having lived in Boulder CO for several years, which is basically the Mecca of Americanized mindfulness, I can attest that this is true. The most ardent practitioners that I met were invariably self obsessed. Over the years of living there I became even more intolerant with these people, I came from the Biodynamic Ag side of things so was pretty battle-hardened in the World of 'Becasue woo' to explain most things. B…

This comment was so cathartic to read lol. Yes it never even felt like a real town to me. It was like a playground for rich adults who want to look progressive and humble, but are fabulously well off. It's a beautiful, clean, crime free city and I hated it.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#319

Post by sershe »

One minor quip that other comments do not seem to address - is that supposed to be a bad thing?

I didn't notice what the article describes when I meditated (if anything I got nicer because my failure mode is being impatient/easily annoyed, and meditation helps with that), but one thing I did notice is that I really couldn't handle going to some meditation groups and any Buddhist ones, because of all the religious/compassionate fluff. To me meditation was always just form of great mental exercise. I thought it was just because of my atheism... but I guess it's also because I think the selfishness is a virtue, so trying to counteract it with some new age stuff never sat well with me.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#320

Post by emptysongglass »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #300
emptysongglass wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the Buddha professed to teach. He taught the illness (dukkha) and the cure for that illness (the eightfold path). A basic framework of ethics girds the path. Almost no one would argue with them: no lying, cheating on your spouse, killing, etc. A fundamental misapprehension of these teachings is what gets people wound up. The Buddha's teachings are not going to answer if rent controls are good policy o…

> Almost no one would argue with them: no lying, cheating on your spouse, killing, etc. None of these are sins in their absolute sense though, and this is what I am underlining, that you can't possibly create absolutist ethics in any way. Philosophy had created a lot of points of view on this, but none of them managed to create a consistent worldview that would work for any occasion.

Absolute sense meaning what? When engaged with they cause suffering. If you turn your mind inward one sees engaging with these acts almost instantaneously harms the doer as the victim.

This is not complicated. Trying to objectify these acts as anything but harmful is not helpful to you or anyone else. The next time you harm someone look closely at yourself first and observe the tumult of feelings that follow. Observing them closely, directly experience their result. Then you can know for yourself what the Buddha taught: evergreen wisdom that will remain applicable so long as people suffer anywhere.

We are not beings of pure intellect. That is complete folly. The mind is real, yes, but so is harm, pain, suffering, and craving. These are not abstract concepts. They can be directly known by anyone living. We must engage with the human faculties we are given and use them to understand our condition and the way leading out.

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