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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#311

Post by skulk »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #302
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

There is a lot of confirmation bias in these stories. Half the issue is that people have been indoctrinated to expect home ownership and long for some golden age seen on TV that never existed. Home ownership was never universal in the US. It has been within a few percent of 65% since the 1960s[1]. It was always out of reach for the lowest earners, like those that make minimum wage. Some people whos parents owned hous…

> people have been indoctrinated to expect home ownership

Expecting to own the building and land on which you live and from which you contribute to society is a product of indoctrination? That makes sense if you're completely against land-ownership (which is, on the surface, a reasonable idea), but surely accepting the only current alternative (paying rent) is the product of an even more sinister form of indoctrination?

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#312

Post by reducesuffering »

1270018080 wrote: post #243
immigrantheart wrote: post #55

As an immigrant, no matter how many times the story about problems of work and wealth inequality and similar theme being brought up, I could never sympathize with it. I think I was raised in the time and place where working just doesn't ever get the luxuries of life. For example, working as a plumber and can afford 2 1/2 kids, a house and a car, that is always impossible. At least in my country. I think America is an…

Yeah, white American boomers had the easiest economic opportunity in human history for the reasons you stated. That time is now over. Millenials/Gen Z are jealous they never had the opportunity. Boomers and younger people who have been indoctrinated can't comprehend why the vast majority are struggling. The post war capitalist system they enjoyed was a temporary anomaly. It isn't compatible with modern life, yet the…

> Millenials/Gen Z are jealous they never had the opportunity.

Oh they definitely have the opportunity (speaking as a Millenial). If you're in the US, payed attention in school, are median IQ, and worked a bit at programming, you have your choice of $120-200k remote software jobs all over the US where the median home is $400k.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#313

Post by jolux »

rtlfe wrote: post #77
jolux wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a gen Zer (albeit on the older side) and I don’t feel this way about work. Probably depends what field you’re in, I quite like being a programmer.

> I quite like being a programmer. This job is truly an anomaly. There are very few careers where you can earn top 1% income with no degree, no physical exertion, under 8 hours a day "on the clock", the freedom to quit any time and have multiple new offers within days, etc, etc.

Yeah but frequently when I tell people they could program if they wanted to they just respond by saying they’re not looking for a grind or whatever. I think some of this is just young people being young people and that attempts to recast it as some huge shift are misguided. Wasn’t it gen X that was supposed to be the slacker generation? This is all low-grade pop sociology.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#314

Post by reducesuffering »

causality0 wrote: post #299
gruez wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Let's look at a typical scenario. You graduate from university with 100k in student loans. A 100k balance at graduation is definitely not "typical". The average right now is $31k. https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-debt-by-year

To be fair, making 75K straight out of uni also is not typical.

GGP said "possible upward mobility" and it is very possible for many Americans to study a computer science BS, and make $140k out of college, now remote across the US.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#315

Post by armitron »

madaxe_again wrote: post #108
rtlfe wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I quite like being a programmer. This job is truly an anomaly. There are very few careers where you can earn top 1% income with no degree, no physical exertion, under 8 hours a day "on the clock", the freedom to quit any time and have multiple new offers within days, etc, etc.

That’s the thing. I know this sounds glib, but the barrier to entry is so low ($20 5th hand laptop will do just fine to do first-steps development), I can’t understand why the market isn’t flooded with coders. So many people say “oh I could never do what you do”, and I’m like “I’m a shaved ape who wanted to play computer games and accidentally ended up learning stuff, you absolutely can”. Then they just go on saying…

> I can’t understand why the market isn’t flooded with coders

The market is flooded with coders, which is why you see coveted companies have the exhausting interview processes that they do. And that's where the big bucks are made.

Smaller companies with low or inexistent barriers to entry may appear appealing to your average bootcamp coder that lacks deep understanding that comes with a CS degree and/or years of experience, but they come with their own severe drawbacks one of them being the fallacy that one can jump from these to the FAANGs, another being the veneer of a career while in reality you're as expendable and replaceable as a minimum wage worker.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#316

Post by faangiq »

burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

Remember: this was the plan for decades. You will own nothing. And you will be happy.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#317

Post by smileysteve »

ushakov wrote: post #161
xmprt wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's mostly true however there's a lot of data that shows worrying trends. For example, millennials don't have anywhere near as much share of wealth as Gen X had at the same age. Wealth is being pretty heavily concentrated at the top of the age brackets.

> Wealth is being pretty heavily concentrated at the top of the age brackets maybe it has to do with the fact that most people inherit when they're old?

The above reference controls for stage of life.. (boomers when they were 30-40, genx 30-40, and gen z 30+.)

Though the related question about inheritance could extend to increased lifespans, retirement, and higher healthcare costs. Where life expectancy has increased 33% in the last 100 years. In part due to better healthcare treatments.

(Though, student loan debt, stagnated wage growth, and other exceeding wage growth factors are more likely l

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#318

Post by [deleted] »

zdragnar wrote: post #146
skulk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. False. A plumber making $80k (US median seems to be around $60k) isn't going to be able to save up for a down payment if they're paying a typical mid-sized city's rent (~$1.2k a month). Not to mention housing costs going up during this period of saving up.

Growing, but still rural city in the Midwest I visited a few weeks back has decent homes for sale in the 50-80k range. This is not an outlier. Roughly 2/3 of Americans own homes. If you live in an area where homes are priced like luxury investments, then yes, you'll have a hard time buying when you also cannot afford other luxuries. If you live in an area where they are not, it isn't unattainable at all, especially i…

[deleted]

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#319

Post by woojoo666 »

slg wrote: post #200
woojoo666 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assumed 15% taxes, so 80k - 15k (taxes) - 40k (living expenses) = 25k

I guess I misread what you said. I would have sworn you said housing expenses and not living expenses.

I'm sure there are plenty in NY that pay $3200 for just housing, so you wouldn't be far off

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#320

Post by smileysteve »

smileysteve wrote: post #317
ushakov wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wealth is being pretty heavily concentrated at the top of the age brackets maybe it has to do with the fact that most people inherit when they're old?

The above reference controls for stage of life.. (boomers when they were 30-40, genx 30-40, and gen z 30+.) Though the related question about inheritance could extend to increased lifespans, retirement, and higher healthcare costs. Where life expectancy has increased 33% in the last 100 years. In part due to better healthcare treatments. (Though, student loan debt, stagnated wage growth, and other exceeding wage grow…

And there is a link to education costs, student loan debt, healthcare costs to lessened inheritance.
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