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USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

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Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#311

If you want a decent dock you have to spend a bit of money. I went through this pain before accepting the cost and buying a CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub[1]. Run's two 4k displays at 60Hz, any peripheral and charges my laptop. So good I bought a second. 1. https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/

While we are recommending, I’ve been very happy with my purchase of Dell’s docking station. “Dell WD19TB Thunderbolt Docking Station”, to be specific. Works well with MBP.

It has some Windows specific features that don’t work with Apple machines. So DYOR.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#312
> At this point, I don’t really know what to say. It honestly feels like no matter what you buy, you get more or less the same hardware, and you’re most likely getting a heavily overpriced product just because some company printed their logo on it. [...] However, I can’t help but feel a little bit cheated by companies just buying off-the-shelf products, slightly modifying the case layout, and then quadruple the price because it’s “from a reputable company”.

It's worth mentioning that buying the same hardware from a reputable company is not always pointless. At USB 3's data rate, power and signal integrity are a serious concern, stability of the hardware is often sensitive to PCB layout. There are numerous pitfalls to shoot yourself in the foot and they are often not obvious at all. Even with exactly the same chip, or even the same circuit connections, a tiny layout change can be a life-or-death issue.

For example, any change to the data line geometry, such as a connector or capacitor soldering pad, introduces unwanted impedance discontinuities to the transmission line and degrades signal integrity. The best design carefully adds or removes copper around these discontinuities to compensate for the impedance change, on the other hand, it may not be a problem if you are lucky. Nevertheless, to truly ensure the design is not just borderline working but has guaranteed stability, it must be verified by testing, using Time Domain Reflectometer, Vector Network Analyzer, and/or inspecting the actual signal on an oscilloscope using the eye diagram.

Similarly, an incorrectly-bypassed power supply may cause random crashes. Such a bad power supply is easily created. For example, if two capacitor values are combined, at some frequency, the parasitic inductance of the first capacitor resonates with the second capacitor, forming a parallel LC circuit and can create a huge spike in the power supply impedance. If this impedance peak happens to be close the operating frequency of a subcircuit, it creates a serious noise problem. A good design would take these into consideration and ensure the power supply impedance is always below the specified target impedance throughout the frequency spectrum. Again, it may not be a problem if you are lucky, but only proper testing can confirm that.

A reputable company is more likely to validate the design, run a full compliance test, and pass the product certification before start selling this device. Meanwhile a no-name vendor sells whatever that powers on, often without regards to signal integrity, especially when you consider that an oscilloscope capable for testing USB 3.2's eye diagrams need a 10 GHz+ real-time bandwidth and costs up to $10,000. I'm not saying that buying from a reputable company is foolproof - it is not, you see sloppy work from time to time, but the chance of getting a tested system is higher.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#313
Important to know is that USB4 in alternate mode can now do DisplayPort 2.0 which is up to 80Gbit/s. Whereas Thunderbolt 4 itself only does 40Gbit/s. So my recommendation is using one dock for charging, Ethernet, USB. Then using a second cable in DP 2.0 mode for your monitor(s). The only problem is that with charging it can make docks also quite flakey.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#314

If you want a decent dock you have to spend a bit of money. I went through this pain before accepting the cost and buying a CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub[1]. Run's two 4k displays at 60Hz, any peripheral and charges my laptop. So good I bought a second. 1. https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/

I'm a huge fan of the Dell WD19TB. Works great on my MacBook Pro M1 Pro (did I mention it's for Pros) and my gaming PC. The only issue I have with it is that the PC will only run video over Thunderbolt if I use YCbCr 4:2:2 with chroma subsampling - so instead I wired my PC monitor directly to the GPU and use the WD19TB for everything else (including video on my Mac laptop over HDMI).

Gets a solid 980Mbits symmetric on the ethernet port, 90W of power delivery, etc. It's a lifesaver swapping just the one cable between my PC and laptop.

Works in USB-C mode too.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d just like to chime in with the Kensington SD5700T [1]. I’ve tried a CalDigit TS3 Plus, an Anker PowerExpand 13-in-1, and the Kensington has by far been the most reliable. It doesn’t have built-in HDMI/DisplayPort out, but it’s easy to buy the appropriate cable to connect to your monitor (I recommend Club3D [2]). Especially if you’re trying to use an HDMI 2.1 or DisplayPort 1.4 display, as I’ve found most built-in…

See, that's crazy, because Sonnet "makes" an identical board. Same case too. Only difference is the logo. https://www.sonnetstore.com/products/echo-11-thunderbolt-4-d... And $40 cheaper than the Kensington branded one. So even though it's thunderbolt and it works for you - it really is the same thing TFA is talking about.

I've found https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2021/02/05/usb4-tb4-docks/ has a nice comparison of the many very similar (only slightly differentiated) thunderbolt 4 docks.

It notes that the Kingston, Sonnet, and others are rebrands of the Goodway DBD1100.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d just like to chime in with the Kensington SD5700T [1]. I’ve tried a CalDigit TS3 Plus, an Anker PowerExpand 13-in-1, and the Kensington has by far been the most reliable. It doesn’t have built-in HDMI/DisplayPort out, but it’s easy to buy the appropriate cable to connect to your monitor (I recommend Club3D [2]). Especially if you’re trying to use an HDMI 2.1 or DisplayPort 1.4 display, as I’ve found most built-in…

I’d like to chime in to highlight how totally underrated the Blackmagic eGPU series Apple collaborated on was. They are virtually silent, have capable, reliable TB3 hubs. Outside the Mac Pro line, the BM eGPUs offered graphics capability to macs going back years that was only surpassed with the recent ASi MBPs. They are remarkably stable and ultimately a great value.

Yeah, I have a Razer Core X eGPU that works really great

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#317
This article makes me feel very good about almost always being several years behind the edge when it comes to hardware.

By the time I get around to using these devices, hopefully this kind of crap will get shaken out, and I'll have a nice stable of salvage accessories to choose from.

For now, I'll stick to my (also salvaged) MBP with regular USB, audio jacks, MagSafe, HDMI, SD card reader, and an extra millimeter or two of thickness. :)

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#318

If you want a decent dock you have to spend a bit of money. I went through this pain before accepting the cost and buying a CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub[1]. Run's two 4k displays at 60Hz, any peripheral and charges my laptop. So good I bought a second. 1. https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/

Yes. Avoid anything with displaylink.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#319
post #31

If you're purchasing something to use permanently at your desk, it's worth spending more for a Thunderbolt dock. Most USB-C hubs are total crap. You'll get far faster transfer speeds, more ports, charging (and at full speed), proper display output (dual 4K/60hz) and better components/reliability. The CalDigit TS3 Plus[1] is what I've used for several years - first with a 2019 Intel MBP and now with my new 2021 M1 Pro…

I went through 2 CalDigit TS3 docks previously, and returned both of them. They had a good number of ports and seemed reliable for the few weeks I had them. But both of them had audibly noisy capacitors, resulting in a tinnitus-like 16KHz tone that would get louder when moving the mouse or when connecting an external monitor to the dock.

What did you replace it with? Having the same problem with mine and looking for an alternative.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#320

I bought a DisplayLink dock for my ubuntu laptops (2015 XPS and 2021 XPS) and it doesn't really work with either. It's quite maddening. It requires a strange driver I would've preferred to avoid. I tried a strange workaround on both and neither really works; one still doesn't display through the DisplayPort or HDMI, the other doesn't work with the M.2 2280 built into the dock. \[0\]: https://github.com/AdnanHodzic/di…

I only made bad experience with displaylink. Now I use HDMI Dongle to connect directly to the GPU.
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