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Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

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Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#311
post #105
post #14

It's burying the lede to suggest that young people are having less sex. The salient fact is that it's young men who are skewing this average down. Women, on average, are doing perfectly fine in the sexual marketplace, along with the top 10-15% of men. edit: The above was my reflexive response to the headline. Now that I've actually read the article, I have to say that the article is very good and quite comprehensive,…

Here's one of the studies linked in the article, published in 2014: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4011992/ Quoting from the "Age at first sex" section: The median age at first sex declined among women born in the 1950s and 1960s, but beginning with women born in the 1970s, this trend halted at about 17.0 years of age, and the median age actually increased by almost a year among cohorts coming of age in…

> 17.8 for women.

> for men is 18.1.

> men 0.1 years later than women.

18.1 - 17.8 = 0.3, not 0.1

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#312
post #80
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has no backing in actual science (regardless of what the cult-like communities on reddit and similar places claim). I think a lot of people misattribute many of their problems to porn because (1) they watch porn and (2) they have some serious life problems. But that doesn't mean that (1) causes (2).

I would be surprised if the scientific mechanisms behind this aren’t discovered within the next 10 years, due to the prevalence of this issue (if what you’re saying is indeed true that this has no current backing in science). If you’re a porn user, I would suggest that you give it a try and observe what happens in your direct experience. Take a break from porn and masturbation. I think that if your discernment is sub…

> Sometimes, science lags behind a bit on describing and explaining the phenomena of this universe.

And porn has only been ubiquitous and effortlessly available for what, maybe a decade or two. It stands to reason that the scientific examination of the consequences is not completed yet.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#313
post #2

Responding to the title: they get their dopamine and serotonin from smartphones x sex has become more risky (than it already was, heh -- STDs and pregnancy / child support) especially reputationally risky with revenge porn and fake rape accusations amplified by social media x 'woke' conflict around consent x pandemic?

Is the letter 'x' supposed to be punctuation nowadays?

(Could be that it was supposed to be a bullet point introducing a new line, which HN purged?)

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#314
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now tell us the mean, mode and standard deviation, show us the 25th and 75th percentiles and break all those stats out by gender. Paints a different picture doesn't it? There's a bell curve but the shape of the bell and the length of the tails can really add up to a lot of area not near the middle.

Actually the median is 3 for both sexes. Yes, of course there are some outliers who have (or report) very many partners.

Interestingly, the average must be the same for men and women (assuming equal numbers and considering only sex between one man and one woman), by construction. But that does not hold for the median necessarily.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#315
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the letter 'x' supposed to be punctuation nowadays?

(Could be that it was supposed to be a bullet point introducing a new line, which HN purged?)

Aha: Yes, probably. And then they used just a single newline between paragraphs, which got eaten by the posting function. Took me too a while to learn to make paragraph breaks two newlines.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the use of just saying it's not a thing? Make a point. My point is that your anecdata is garbage. Older folks saying young people don't know how to communicate is a centuries old trope. Most people can communicate just fine. Given that you are citing people flaking, one might assume that the traits you're applying to an entire generation of individuals may just be your shitty friends. Little bubbles at the t…

> My point is that your anecdata is garbage. Yet another of your points that sucks, since it wasn't their "anecdata": You're replying to two different people. > Older folks saying young people don't know how to communicate is a centuries old trope. [...] Most people can communicate just fine. So you've missed all the myriad "I hardly ever answer when my phone rings, and never initiate any phone calls myself" comments…

Phone calls are becoming an outdated form of communication.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#317

What the heck is wrong with older generations? Leave young people alone, they literally can't win in this discussion. This article is filled with baseless pseudoscience and random cultural anxiety, and without any real substance the article just ties all of it to this phenomenon that isn't even really definitively bad. People look at anything different about teenagers and young adults, and this becomes an opportunity…

> Oh, young people have less sex? This is definitely a problem, and... Well, judging from many of the quotes in the article, it seems to be a problem for many of these young people, according to these young people themselves. Just because you can do without doesn't mean everyone should have to. > This is just a laundry list of everything older generations hate about the youth Funny, to me it looked like a list of pro…

> it seems to be a problem for many of these young people, according to these young people themselves.

There are a couple of problems here:

- the plural of anecdote is not data, and I don't see any evidence that the specific unhappy people being interviewed need a widespread societal change rather than, say, therapy.

- the article is light on any compelling evidence that the levels of happiness being expressed are abnormal or atypical from previous generations. This is really just a general problem with the article, it throws out stats and fails to connect them to the overall narrative or to contextualize them, it just kind of assumes they are connected.

And again, just really sloppy data journalism here. From the article:

> In reporting this story, I spoke and corresponded with dozens of 20- and early-30-somethings in hopes of better understanding the sex recession. I can’t know that they were representative, though I did seek out people with a range of experiences.

Oh, you found a couple dozen teenagers that are unhappy and willing to talk to you? Color me super-impressed, that's definitely something I should take seriously. /s

> Or are you claiming the authors just plain made up all those quotes from interviewees?

I'm claiming that the author should be better at understanding how data works and how causal relationships work, especially since the article itself calls out how anecdotal interviews led to moral panics over largely non-existent issues like college orgies. To borrow the exact same terminology as this article: I feel like people should have learned something from those earlier moral panics about treating "I feel" statements as fact.

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> WTF is wrong with that paragraph? It's just (a pop-sci resume of) simple fact.

The pop-sci part. Humans aren't the only animals that masturbate or mate for fun. Humans also aren't the only animals to practice monogamy, and we're not the only animals to exhibit homosexual behavior. It's a "pop-sci" fact in the sense that it's just flat out wrong, our sexuality is not that special.

It's also pop-sci in the sense that it ignores a huge number of much larger differences between us and most animals in order to (with no evidence) assert that this is a fundamental difference that needs to be treated with a huge amount of reverence. It's just silly to say that sexuality is a bigger separator between us and apes than, just as one example, cooking.

But people have been living emotionally satisfying lives without sex since early human history. It's not just bad science, it's just flat out illogical to anyone who's ever looked at animals, or read a Bible/Other-religious-text, or studied any ancient history, or looked around them at the world. You don't have to be asexual for this, there have been celibate people for a long time.

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> [A bunch of nonsense about how "stunted" should be used in the broadest possible neutral sense whenever the word is questioned, and then used in its more common negative form whenever we evaluate the patterns of the youth].

:) I don't often get attacked this way nowadays, so it's in some ways kind of interesting to see. If we take your assertion at face value that "stunted" literally just means I experience fewer categories of emotion, then by extension, it's not clear why that's bad or why we need to be particularly worried about whether young people are boning.

On top of that, this displays a lack of understanding about what sex drive is, and what the differences are between romantic and sexual attraction are. It's very odd to me to see someone categorize specifically sexual attraction as an emotion, if someone had a large appetite and ate a lot of food, we wouldn't say that was an emotion. Sexual expression is often connected to romantic feeling and sexual expression often enhances romantic feeling, but it is not itself inherently romantic. And it's kind of silly to argue that it is, because the whole debate about pornography and hookup culture is based around the fact that sex can be separated from romance.

This article doesn't really seem to understand that point.

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The TLDR of all of this is that the article doesn't offer evidence of anything, it doesn't even offer evidence that this is a problem. It interviews a bunch of book offers and some professors, and it interviews some younger people who are frustrated with romance/sex right now.

Well, congrats, people have been frustrated about romance/sex forever, it's not new. And it's an unscientific, unsubstantiated jump to say that just because younger people are having less sex that the "dozens" of people interviewed must therefore be representative of the entire demographic.

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> Sounds like wild projection caused by over-sensitivity.

To be clear, I'm not the person writing articles in a major newspaper complaining that millennials are killing Toys 'R Us.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#318
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but there are tons of young people from religious or conservative families who wait until marriage to have sex and marry young, and/or don't begin their sexual exploration until well into college. Your anecdotal point notwithstanding. All human beings are equally sexual in terms of their drive and interest, but religion can and does alter psychology and behavior. There are places where religion is common b…

> I'm sorry, but there are tons of young people from religious or conservative families who wait until marriage to have sex and marry young The parent poster implied that people were highly bound by their religion; I simply offered a counterexample. I am not saying that abstinence until marriage never happens. > and/or don't begin their sexual exploration until well into college This is not relevant since the teachin…

> I simply offered a counterexample.

That isn't true. You offered a counterargument.

> This is not relevant since the teaching is abstinence until marriage, not abstinence until college.

A common effect of religious influence is delayed sexual exploration (i.e., later than what's natural given human biological development). The fact that you need this to be explained to you shows that you aren't aware of the phenomenon we're discussing. It's something that's very hard to understand if you haven't lived it.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is that your anecdata is garbage. Yet another of your points that sucks, since it wasn't their "anecdata": You're replying to two different people. > Older folks saying young people don't know how to communicate is a centuries old trope. [...] Most people can communicate just fine. So you've missed all the myriad "I hardly ever answer when my phone rings, and never initiate any phone calls myself" comments…

Phone calls are becoming an outdated form of communication.

Yes, exactly. Because the kids are too fucking snowflake to even dare talk to someone on the phone. That's my point you're proving, not yours.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#320
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Could be that it was supposed to be a bullet point introducing a new line, which HN purged?)

Aha: Yes, probably. And then they used just a single newline between paragraphs, which got eaten by the posting function. Took me too a while to learn to make paragraph breaks two newlines.

Actually I meant it as multiplication. This idea times that idea, a multiplication of factors influencing.
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