Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 508 posts

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#311

Post by wpearse »

ec109685 wrote: post #290
kortilla wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If that's true, then Apple just raised the privacy bar and now Tile and other small players need to up their game to stay relevant. No they didn’t. This “feature” is garbage for the people who actually buy it. It makes putting air tags on things shared by a bunch of people a huge pain in the ass. “Freaking people out who are on the bus with you because you forgot your phone but have your keys” is not a selling feat…

You can chose to stop getting an alert if a particular device is following you, so that should handle the communal device with an AirTag?

Can you? I was away with work for a week and left all my keys (with AirTags) at home. Got home and they were all in the fridge.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#312

Post by jtc331 »

Notably they hint at one of the problems but don’t discuss fixing it at all: it’s bizarre that AirTags can’t be shared with a family account. It’s irritating that if I grab my wife’s copy of the car key I get alerts about being tracked, and, conversely, it’s frustrating that she can’t locate my copy of the key when that’s the one that’s closest.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#313

Post by oxplot »

kortilla wrote: post #287
oxplot wrote: post #251

This is a great response - very happy to hear Apple's involvement with various groups to make things better. Some noteworthy bits: > we innovated with the first-ever proactive system to alert you of unwanted tracking If that's true, then Apple just raised the privacy bar and now Tile and other small players need to up their game to stay relevant. There is also lesson to learn here: whoever makes a tech/product popula…

> If that's true, then Apple just raised the privacy bar and now Tile and other small players need to up their game to stay relevant. No they didn’t. This “feature” is garbage for the people who actually buy it. It makes putting air tags on things shared by a bunch of people a huge pain in the ass. “Freaking people out who are on the bus with you because you forgot your phone but have your keys” is not a selling feat…

> This “feature” is garbage for the people who actually buy it.

I'm one of those people who has 10 Airtag, who lives with others and haven't had this problem. As far as I (and many others) am concerned, "Apple just raised the privacy bar and now Tile and other small players need to up their game to stay relevant."

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#314

Post by MertsA »

jeromegv wrote: post #188
notatoad wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

probably the same loophole as the "end-to-end encryption" in iMessage. it's end-to-end, but the client is their close-source proprietary software, so if they need access to the data they can just remotely access the client software that you've authenticated and access whatever they need to.

That’s not the iMessage loophole. The loophole is when you have iClouds backup enabled. They have access to it. Disable the backup, you disable the loophole.

That's not the only iMessage loophole. They also obscure key distribution and have the ability to add and remove keys that are ostensibly for your devices at will. Technically you can check in keychain but virtually no one even does that between their own devices, let alone share and verify out of band with every other party they communicate with.

"E2E encrypted, we can't even read it, unless you use iCloud, or we get a NSL, or if we feel like being a MITM today".

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#315

Post by mtlynch »

incongruity wrote: post #293
concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

> That leaves "finding your keys within your home" as the only truly "officially supported" use case. That is hardly true. Case in point - my wife put down her keys at a store and managed to leave without noticing (this was early after AirTags hit the market). I was driving and we left without recognizing that a few hundred dollars of keys had been lost. Later that day, we noticed. She called a few stores all said th…

>I was driving and we left without recognizing that a few hundred dollars of keys had been lost.

What do you mean by "a few hundred dollars of keys?" Do hardware stores charge more than a few dollars per key in your area? Were these private keys to a crypto wallet?

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#316

Post by userbinator »

DenisM wrote: post #120
isoprophlex wrote: post #16

Are airtags still useful for eg. tracking a stolen bike? Or will it now alert the thief within minutes that the bike contains a tracker?

Destroy the speaker and hide the device inside a tire, steerer tube, or other such place? I mean the thief will get notified, but what are they going to do? Dismount tires, disassemble steering assembly, remove the grips, undo the saddle, bottle mount, Garmin mount, bash guard, lights, etc? This all takes time and skill, it can’t be done on the spot and if they dragged the bike home or to a fence they have already di…

Now you've increased the motivation for thieves to carry EMP guns with them... they already do that to deactivate merchandise loss prevention tags (RFID).

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#317

Post by Wowfunhappy »

eftychis wrote: post #252
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #240

> Every AirTag has a unique serial number, and paired AirTags are associated with an Apple ID. Apple can provide the paired account details in response to a subpoena or valid request from law enforcement. We have successfully partnered with them on cases where information we provided has been used to trace an AirTag back to the perpetrator, who was then apprehended and charged. This makes me wonder, could Apple go fu…

Consider theft. Now the thieves have the victims phone number to attempt to further steal from them. Or if there is an audible sound, they know the police is coming after them and can drop the airtag and avoid apprehension. This is a two edge blade. Personally, if I was going to use an airtag I would use it to protect myself in case of theft. Now, the thieves can locate the airtag due to a notification and move it to…

But Apple is already saying you shouldn't use AirTags for cases of theft. The AirTags already attempt to alert people to their presence, including with sound.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#318

Post by oxplot »

concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

Like sibling post mentioned, you don't seem to be the target audience. I know a lot of people, friends and family, who constantly leave stuff behind, in restaurants, other people's places, on the train, in shops, you name it. 99% of the time, no one's gonna steal it, but trying to figure out where the hell you left something, if you do leave stuff behind often, becomes increasingly difficult. With something like an Airtag, it's no longer an issue. You get altered before you get too far, and even if you do, you can figure out later where your stuff is.

I once left my umbrella in a hire car. It took me 2 weeks to realize it was missing. Turns out no one touched it and I could see it on the map, in the parking lot of the hire car company. So I showed up, and within minutes, we pinned down which car it was in. Without Airtag, I would not even remember where I could have possibly left it, after two weeks! Learnt my lesson to turn on separation alert after that.

Now I need a smaller Airtag for my sunglasses — expensive and easy to leave behind.

Needing an Airtag is like needing a case for your phone. A lot of people keep dropping their phone so they put a case on it. In 13 years of owning a smart phone, I've never dropped mine. But I don't claim that phone cases are only useful if you throw your partner's phone off the balcony after a fight.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#319

Post by matteotom »

mtlynch wrote: post #315
incongruity wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That leaves "finding your keys within your home" as the only truly "officially supported" use case. That is hardly true. Case in point - my wife put down her keys at a store and managed to leave without noticing (this was early after AirTags hit the market). I was driving and we left without recognizing that a few hundred dollars of keys had been lost. Later that day, we noticed. She called a few stores all said th…

> I was driving and we left without recognizing that a few hundred dollars of keys had been lost. What do you mean by "a few hundred dollars of keys?" Do hardware stores charge more than a few dollars per key in your area? Were these private keys to a crypto wallet?

If your car has a smart key, it can be over $100 to replace and another $100 to have a dealer or locksmith re-program it.

Edit, more things that are expensive:

- if you live in an apartment with nfc entry, they might charge an arm and a leg to replace it, even if the actual device is only a few dollars

- IDK how much it costs to replace an apartment mailbox key, but I've been warned that if you lose one they need to re-key the whole mailbox

- maybe you don't feel safe with a house key in the wild and need to re-key your house (same for your car/s)

- if you have work keys, they might over-charge to replace lost keys

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#320

Post by el-salvador »

dylan604 wrote: post #225
phil21 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So for stolen items, it is also useless. It's not. I've recovered my phone after it was stolen by simply showing up to the house it wandered off to the next morning. I've done this a number of times for friends (perhaps not really the brightest idea in retrospect) and you'd be surprised at how many folks simply apologize and hand it over when confronted. If they refuse, at least you tried. Plenty of folks will take…

I wonder what the %s are of people that lose a device and do not immediately lock it? Is there a large enough market for buying stolen phones that are locked to make them useable again? Do these people expect to extort a finder's fee? I just don't think "criminal" enough to understand the value of a stolen phone. > Plenty of folks will take matters into their own hands for a $1,000 device I was once mugged at gun poi…

> I thought it a good idea to kindly ask for my wallet and phone back by convincing them the phone was several generations older, it would be locked as soon as I returned home.

About a decade ago when El Salvador was more dangerous, cell phone theft at gun point or knife point was more common. And well SIM cards used to be easier to remove from phones.

So the "good thieves" would allow you to remove the sim card from the phone before stealing it from you.

There were also times where the thief would be "pickier" than you, so if you had a very old or a damaged phone they would just give you your phone back after mugging you.

Two tricks were faking an ugly phone while carrying without a battery cover and cover it with duct tape. Or carrying a hidden good phone and a visible old phone.

Post reply on HN