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Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

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Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#311

Post by chrisseaton »

civilized wrote: post #307
chrisseaton wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does 'annual plan' mean to you? How can you misinterpret those words?

I would probably understand it, but I don't think those two words would necessarily make it clear to every person of every background, and it's very easy for Adobe to briefly explain the early termination fee on the payment page where everyone can easily see it. They don't explain it because they want everyone to convert, even people who did not understand what they signed up for and would not have signed up if they…

> They don't explain it because they want everyone to convert

Being charitable, I would guess that they don't explain it because it seems like plain language and should be understandable.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#312

Post by marcosdumay »

chrisseaton wrote: post #299
beeboop wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use privacy.com for throw-away cards and you can set spending limits and close them at any time.

> close them at any time Closing your card doesn't have any impact on legal obligations you had, or a merchant thinks you had, or any impact on whether a merchant will choose to do business with you in the future.

Yeah, and a software provider hiding a non-cancel clause somewhere in a dozens of pages after the deal "contrat" doesn't impact on your legal obligations either.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#313

Post by [deleted] »

vel0city wrote: post #279
jeroenhd wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I opened their page and the drop down was clearly labeled as an annual subscription to me. It also told me the exact date by which I should cancel not to infer any costs. The drop down offered me to pay the full year upfront, or a monthly plan which is cancellable at any time. I don't think this stuff is illegal at all. What they effectively did here is put the email address and personal information for…

The author of this tweet thread even acknowledges it states the terms in the workflow. > But what does "Annual plan, paid monthly" actually mean? I don't understand how "Annual plan, paid monthly" could be taken as something confusing or requires some additional context to make any sense out of it. How are other people reading "Annual plan, paid monthly" any other way than that it is an annual plan broken out into mo…

[deleted]

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#314

Post by remus »

davidg109 wrote: post #20
cute_boi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't people contact their credit card provider to inform it as fraudulent charge?

Given how low they are already stopping, they likely have a dedicated team for chargebacks that will fight tooth and nail to challenge it. I am currently dealing with a chargeback team for another company, and the amount of time they’ve dedicated into challenging me likely exceeds the chargeback value itself.

> I am currently dealing with a chargeback team for another company, and the amount of time they’ve dedicated into challenging me likely exceeds the chargeback value itself.

For the company the value is in keeping their chargeback rate down, not in the money itself. If your chargeback rate gets too high it becomes increasingly difficult and expensive to find a card processor who will work with you.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#315

Post by marcosdumay »

ummonk wrote: post #286
Spooky23 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t evil, it’s just when companies move to subscription they turn into mini insurance companies focused on the spreadsheets. They model out your lifetime value and know that every $1 they chisel out of you is worth $1.40 in 5 years. They are brutal in the enterprise space, looking for 10-15% price escalations. They also turn over sales leadership so if you are big enough you can pull stunts for concessions. J…

"it’s just when companies move to subscription they turn into mini insurance companies focused on the spreadsheets. They model out your lifetime value and know that every $1 they chisel out of you is worth $1.40 in 5 years." The term for that is "evil".

"Evil" is normally used for people that do worse actions than overbill their customers. "Fraudster" applies better here.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#316

Post by civilized »

chrisseaton wrote: post #311
civilized wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would probably understand it, but I don't think those two words would necessarily make it clear to every person of every background, and it's very easy for Adobe to briefly explain the early termination fee on the payment page where everyone can easily see it. They don't explain it because they want everyone to convert, even people who did not understand what they signed up for and would not have signed up if they…

> They don't explain it because they want everyone to convert Being charitable, I would guess that they don't explain it because it seems like plain language and should be understandable.

That's only "charitable" to the giant company. It's not so charitable to the people who say they were confused in good faith and signed up for something they wouldn't have signed up for if they had understood it.

These people exist and have made themselves known in the OP Twitter thread and other HN comments on this post.

I can't help but wonder if all this "how can people not understand" is just thinly-veiled contempt for people who don't have the same background or way of thinking or interpreting words as you do.

Who gives a shit about those people, am I right? Who cares if they're on the hook for hundreds they didn't expect to have to pay. Good on Adobe for imposing that stupidity tax on lesser minds than yours!

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#317

Post by chrisseaton »

marcosdumay wrote: post #312
chrisseaton wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> close them at any time Closing your card doesn't have any impact on legal obligations you had, or a merchant thinks you had, or any impact on whether a merchant will choose to do business with you in the future.

Yeah, and a software provider hiding a non-cancel clause somewhere in a dozens of pages after the deal "contrat" doesn't impact on your legal obligations either.

I would guess that ‘annual plan’ is presumed to be clear enough, you didn’t have to read the contract.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#318

Post by anon23anon »

cpach wrote: post #68

If you’re on macOS and just want a good and convenient image editor, I warmly recommend Acorn. The Muellers (owners of Flying Meat Software) have put a lot of effort to make it feel like a really solid Mac application. The price is good and from time to time they offer discounts. The whole experience reminds me of using good old Paintshop Pro back in the late 90s (^_^) Other options are Affinity Photo from Serif Ltd…

I've bought both Acorn and Affinity over the years. W/ Affinity they're license is only good for the platform you purchased it on e.g. you can't use a windows license on your mac - you'd need to purchase 2 separate license. Considering I have a work mac and a work windows this was kind of annoying but whatever.

The thing that I encountered w/ Acorn was their license was tied to a particular version. For example a new Mac OS version came out, the version of Acorn I purchased wouldn't work w/ whatever version that was so continue using Acorn I need to purchase a new version. The part that irked me here was I only got like 1 years use out of the software. Feel like they should support n-2 or something to that effect. Not sure if things have changed.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#319

Post by unfocussed_mike »

Closi wrote: post #297
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the interests of reaching a point of agreement, I concur that they could put, in or next to that initial wording, something like "early cancellation fees may apply". But an annual plan really is that. They are telling you pretty clearly* what you're buying; the fact that there's a way to bail out half way for less is an advance on that position. * though as I said in the other reply, "yearly" would be better

> I concur that they could put, in or next to that initial wording, something like "early cancellation fees may apply". Again, this wording seems unnecessarily soft to me - the inclusion of 'may' adds ambiguity to make the user think that there might not be exit fees - it should really be "early cancellation fees will apply" . Better yet, you could give the cost: "Early cancellation fees of 50% of the remainder of th…

Fair point, though at that stage, early cancellation only may apply, because you can back out of the trial on/before seven days.

Early cancellation fees will apply after the trial, is the wording that is the clearest, I guess.

This is a really interesting exploration of word choice though. I must say, I had not considered that the word "annual" could be perceived to be unwieldy in this situation, for example.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#320

Post by arcticbull »

bambax wrote: post #241
sibit wrote: post #58

For anyone stuck in this dark pattern here is a trick I've used in the past: Adobe won't let you cancel without paying the remainder of your subscription fee however you can switch to a different plan. As soon as you switch you'll have the ability to cancel your "new" plan within 14 days. If you cancel after 14 days they'll charge you the early termination fee.

Or you can just block the recurring payments and wait for them to come at you? Anyway a "free" trial that asks for your cc number is obviously not free. Better to stay away of those to be on the safe side.

You may get sent to collections and thats a whole pile of misfortune.
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