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Without parental leave I might be dead

nytimes.com

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Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#311

Post by mabbo »

TheCapn wrote: post #70

My first child is due January. I sat down with my boss about a month or so ago and told him I'm intending to take parental leave. "No problem" he said, I told him my intention was to take the full 8 weeks I'm entitled to. He didn't say anything right away to that... eventually it was more of a "...that's not typical for the guys around here" We did a bit of back and forth. (I think he went to HR to find out he can't…

I'm about a month behind you, but the difference is that I'm in Canada. I'll be taking 8 weeks, and most people are asking "is that all?".

My wife and I get to split 69 weeks, of which neither of us can take more than 61. She's going to take the max, plus her 15 weeks she gets post-birth (76 weeks total) and I'll take 8 right at the start. We get a small amount of government-paid employment insurance, and jobs will exist when we return.

What's important is that here, it's enforced by law, not by company generosity. To punish me (or my wife) for taking this time off is literally illegal. I soon need to have a conversation with my manager (based in the US) to make sure he's aware of the this all. He's a nice guy, but he may be surprised.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#312

Post by baq »

Clubber wrote: post #250
pc86 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a business relationship so I don't see why "they'd fire you in no time if you stopped providing value" is always thrown around as a negative. Of course that's the case. You'd stopped working in no time if they stopped providing value to you too. As it should be, from both sides. You can have loyalty and still understand that there's a social/informal contract in place (and maybe a formal one in some places).

If you really wanted to treat it like a business relationship, any employee should constantly be looking for higher paying / better job and leave immediately when that job is offered, not even giving 2 weeks, because that's 2 weeks of additional income the employee wouldn't be getting. Are you in agreeable with that as well? Hard, cold business decisions work both ways.

a fully rational actor would do exactly that, unless he also puts utility value on hard to define 'relationships', but why would he if money in hand has clearly defined utility...?

just another hole in classical economics and theory of rational choice.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#313

Post by seneca »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #294

From the US live in Norway now. In Norway there are a lot of political parties that can matter. All depends on the election. Some grow, some dont, new ones are added, old ones go away. That is a dynamic that is entirely missing in the US. We have parties in the European left and we have parties on the European right, parties in the middle, green party etc etc. I try to get people to understand that we do not have a s…

The illegal immigrant population alone in the US is estimated to be between 10 and 28 million. The entire population of Norway is about 5.5 million. Perhaps the two countries have very different political realities.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#314

Post by 5560675260 »

geodel wrote: post #181
speedgoose wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the logic. Because Greece has some issues with its women employment rate, USA can't do anything about parental leaves? You even suggested in your initial post simple solutions for this problem, that work in other countries.

It's a damn clear logic to me. --Employers show reluctance to hire women of certain age--. It is same in India with govt's liberal policy of maternity leave, overall employment rate of Women has gone down. Resources do not come out of thin air. Something has to happen for it to change: 1) Govt provide income to family engaged in child raising activity. -Need high level of tax base and political support to actually fu…

> Its antithesis of progressive vision of society.

Could you expand a bit on this? My impression was that it just became a cultural norm in places that could afford this, driven by the basic need to cultivate own "spaces".

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#315

Post by baq »

bko wrote: post #32
speedgoose wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saying "other countries do it" isn't really an answer. There's no clear solutions Your argument makes me think about this satiric article : https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-na... I live in a country where it's exactly what we do, and it's fine. I took a 7 months paid parental leave as a dad recently and my company congratulated me for the birth.

Again, saying "other countries do it" isn't really an answer. That's like saying why are incomes in Mexico so much lower than the US? Just do what the US does. In fact, Mexico has 12 weeks. And Greece has 40. I'd rather be a parent in the US than Greece or Mexico. Policies don't exist in a vacuum.

the US also has significantly (in a statistical meaning of the word) lower average life expectancy than peer countries despite having by far the largest health care related expenses per capita.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-lif...

> Just do what the US does.

thanks, but no thanks.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#316

Post by helloworld11 »

Clubber wrote: post #250
pc86 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a business relationship so I don't see why "they'd fire you in no time if you stopped providing value" is always thrown around as a negative. Of course that's the case. You'd stopped working in no time if they stopped providing value to you too. As it should be, from both sides. You can have loyalty and still understand that there's a social/informal contract in place (and maybe a formal one in some places).

If you really wanted to treat it like a business relationship, any employee should constantly be looking for higher paying / better job and leave immediately when that job is offered, not even giving 2 weeks, because that's 2 weeks of additional income the employee wouldn't be getting. Are you in agreeable with that as well? Hard, cold business decisions work both ways.

One can treat an employment contract like a business relationship while also giving some preference to a company they like working for, and vice versa (always bearing in mind that all but very small personally run companies are likely brainless , soulless corporate entities regardless of any PR platitudes to the contrary). Agreed on that. However, in the OP above, the guy describes a situation in which despite being a well established employee, he had to basically claw for even a meager 8 weeks of paid leave for something as important as a newborn baby. Based on that description alone, I'd tentatively say that the employer hardly deserves much loyalty at all. As I already mentioned.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#317

Post by baq »

tomp wrote: post #256
Clubber wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at the mean which includes billionaire disposable income. Look at the median for a more realistic picture (scroll down 1 grid).

I doubt many billionaires have income. Although you're partially right, I'm not sure which is a better metric. Probably depends on where in the distribution you are (above or below the median).

for this exercise, I'd consider 'loans against equity' to be disposable income.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#318

Post by cloudfifty »

jseban wrote: post #287
cloudfifty wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why's that? You're still not getting those benefits with an above average salary.

You would be better off financing your own "benefits" if you're above average. And everyone would theoretically also be better off without the benefits, because of how much money you would save in all the bureaucracy needed. It's only the people who are not able to take responsibility for having their own money, that are the ones that are really better off. Any tax financed benefits for everyone like this, pensions,…

But this doesn't seem to be happening. Very well off people in the US still have very very modest vacations and parental leave, very expensive day care etc.

What's even the upside if you're just trading universal tax to paying a for-profit corp monthly instead? Skipping the queue through wealth instead of need?

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#319

Post by baq »

jseban wrote: post #287
cloudfifty wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why's that? You're still not getting those benefits with an above average salary.

You would be better off financing your own "benefits" if you're above average. And everyone would theoretically also be better off without the benefits, because of how much money you would save in all the bureaucracy needed. It's only the people who are not able to take responsibility for having their own money, that are the ones that are really better off. Any tax financed benefits for everyone like this, pensions,…

> It's only the people who are not able to take responsibility for having their own money, that are the ones that are really better off.

some people don't have the liberty of that privilege. being poor is very expensive.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#320

Post by pertymcpert »

tomp wrote: post #194
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

You're free to move to Europe, earn 3x less, and get 1-2 years parental leave (actually not just for mothers in some countries!)

Are you actually proposing that as a solution? Are you against paid parental leave?
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