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Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

wired.co.uk

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Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#311

Post by [deleted] »

watwut wrote: post #216
newbamboo wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would ask her why she didn’t do well on her math test and encourage her to think about strategies she could use to do better on the next one. I believe in providing scaffolding and empowering young minds. I realize there are different parenting styles but at some point the child won’t have anyone else to manage her and will need to solve problems in her own. It’s great if she has a lot of practice and experience wi…

You expect that from 6 years old? They can't even read and write. School age kids don't start at 14 when you can discuss strategies. It starts at 6 when the kid starts mostly confused and excited.

[deleted]

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#312

Post by koilke »

losvedir wrote: post #286
Diggsey wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absolutely micromanaging and negative. The goal of school isn't just to pass the tests. If a kid fails to revise for a test, but it doesn't matter because their parent will just look up the schedule and force them to revise, then they learn nothing beyond what's in the test. If they fail to revise and as a result do badly at the test, then next time they might actually take the initiative and revise through th…

FYI in English "revise" means something like "edit". You probably meant "review". I know in Spanish "revisar" can mean to review, so that caught my eye, and thought you might be tricked by a false cognate.

Perhaps British English?

(US review) to study again something you have already learned, in preparation for an exam: We're revising (algebra) for the test tomorrow.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/ja/dictionary/english/revis...

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#313

Post by losvedir »

jacobolus wrote: post #310
losvedir wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI in English "revise" means something like "edit". You probably meant "review". I know in Spanish "revisar" can mean to review, so that caught my eye, and thought you might be tricked by a false cognate.

British English "revise" = American English "study".

Oh, TIL, thanks!

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#314

Post by GhettoComputers »

henrikschroder wrote: post #302
GhettoComputers wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can there be defense against this? The US does this but the military contracts aren't executed shoddily, although it seems that many others are. Why would they make such a crappy program, don't they have any incentive to have a good reputation or to get more contracts? If it sucks and their history sucks, why would anyone want to hire them?

Public procurement requiring tax-funded projects to go to the lowest bidder is how this system is defended. There's a whole industry of companies who cater to these kinds of projects, and they don't give a shit about their reputation, because they're busy making sweet, sweet, money. And if you think US military contractors aren't wasteful and shoddy, I have a bridge to sell you!

I don't think all of them are done shoddily, but the US has the most powerful military, so they must be at least less bad, after all a lot of powerful military vehicles were contracted like the SR-71.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#315

Post by GhettoComputers »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #307
henrikschroder wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not how it works. Sweden has separations of power like every other liberal democracy, but the cake isn't cut the same way as it is in the US. Government offices are much more independent and protected from political interference than in the US, for example. Basically, elected city officials set the budget and general guidance, and can appoint some administrators, but most people on the administrative side…

Thanks for the explanation but I believe there’s been a misunderstanding. By pension off I meant is there a possibility for someone mediocre, or promoted beyond their level of competence, to be immediately dismissed with a generous pension. And to replace them with someone else selected for fixing the problem?

You mean what happenen in the US when a cop shot an undercover cop and promptly retired to prevent himself from getting into more trouble? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fQcjmt2Q_o

This policy won't help.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#316

Post by silexia »

The core issue here is that we ask governments to do too much. Governments are mediocre at doing things when they begin, and usually always end up mired in corruption and bureaucracy later on. This is just another example of that.

Private organizations have their own failings, but at least when they fail they can be penalized or go bankrupt. There is no mechanism like bankruptcy for the government and so we are stuck with an agency forever once it is started.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#317

Post by theptip »

urvader wrote: post #268
bjourne wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be some terminology confusion at play. The data may be an "offentlig handling" ("public document"). Christian's argument is that since the data is a "public document" it can be published through his app. That argument is correct at least as long as he has an "utgivningsbevis" ("letter of publishing rights"?). However, it doesn't follow that the way his app is accessing the data is lawful. You may go to a ba…

No, the app has no communication to us, we don’t even have a server. This means that from a legal standpoint we aren’t publishing any information. We only help our users to present their own data in a better format (than json).

Sorry, I see now that “they” in my comment was ambiguous. I meant “the government”, not your app that accesses the school APIs. As in, if in Sweden anything that is available from the government in an API is defined to be published, does that mean the government cannot make an API for private information such as sensitive parent/teacher communications?

Naively it seems to me that a government API could contain docs that are not published/public docs. But maybe that is so, and the argument here is simply that _in this case_ everything was in fact public, including some personal data that would seem non-public to people familiar with other legal systems.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#318

Post by madmod »

In high school I reverse engineered my school grading system portal (Skyward) and made an app to help me prioritize assignments by their impact on my GPA. In the process I found that there were almost no permissions enforced. I made a typo in my user id number in a python test script and boom there was someone else's transcript! I set up a meeting with my principal and after much shade being thrown by the school district I proved to them it was a legit issue.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#319

Post by watwut »

renewiltord wrote: post #269
watwut wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When homework is not done, teacher sends the email. Or gave the kid black point and then the kid was unhappy about it and told me. If it did not, that teacher would also send mail, but after like 2-3 points within short period (don't know the exact rules). The other option is to ask in the evening "have you done homework". One of my kids would never lie and other only rarely, so it worked. To add to it, old system wa…

Okay, with this email business we’re back with the “micromanaging”.

In which alternative universe is teacher telling parent that homework 7 years old was not done micromanaging? Even among adults, analyst telling project manager you are not doing tasks right is not micromanaging. Or your peer developer telling pm your quality of work is bad. It is completely absurd.

The whole point of child raising is to raise the child. Not to go "kiddy, if you are not born organized and attentive, tough luck, we gonna do nothing and then blame you for being bad in school when you grow".

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#320

Post by randomswede »

theptip wrote: post #317
urvader wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the app has no communication to us, we don’t even have a server. This means that from a legal standpoint we aren’t publishing any information. We only help our users to present their own data in a better format (than json).

Sorry, I see now that “they” in my comment was ambiguous. I meant “the government”, not your app that accesses the school APIs. As in, if in Sweden anything that is available from the government in an API is defined to be published, does that mean the government cannot make an API for private information such as sensitive parent/teacher communications? Naively it seems to me that a government API could contain docs t…

If (and only if) the API is authenticated can you publish things that fall under various secrecy laws (sekretesslagar), the chief one I am familiar with is medical secrecy, where a person has access to all their medical records, medical staff have access to records that are relevant to ongoing treatment, and no one else has.

This can, in principle, be solved with a permission system that makes suitable decisions based on the identity of the API user (well, the identity on whose behalf the API queries are done).

For medical secrecy, should you stumble over information that you should not have, you are then legally obliged to not disclose the information, but I cannot recall to what extent you have an obligation to tell relevant document owners about the possible breach, it's simply been too long since I was working in medical IT (where, by necessity, I would occasionally stumble over secret things doing things like DB repairs or helping users with application problems).

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