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Overly analytical guide to escorting

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Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#311

Post by micromacrofoot »

ParoxysmalVigor wrote: post #191
micromacrofoot wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seriously out here comparing consensual sex between two consenting adults to murder for hire? You can at least try to make a point in good faith first.

I never voiced my attitude towards legalization of prostitution. I addressed very specific weak argument. Sorry, if you found my comment rude, i assure you that this was not my goal. You used abortion there. I don't think we could get a consent from fetus, law just assumes that female parent have a power over it's life until some development point. People consensually participate at gambling, dueling, pyramid schemes…

I said sex work is an old profession to exemplify why banning it doesn't work. I certainly didn't present the age of the profession as the sole reason for legalizing it.

I don't think you consider assassination and prostitution equivilant crimes, yet you made the comparison. Why? What's the point of taking something out of context to invalidate it?

If you have reasons for opposing the legalization of sex work, they're completely lost on me. Maybe start there instead of pedantry.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#312

Post by Yoric »

eevilspock wrote: post #165
Yoric wrote: post #156

Very interesting article. Do I understand correctly that sex work is still illegal in the US? If so, what's the rationale? Why can't consenting adults do what they want with their body?

If a woman is poor, struggling to survive or trying to give a child a decent life in a society and economic system that is very sink or swim, do you consider it "consent" if she agrees to have sex with you so she can pay the rent, or have a decent meal, or buy the drugs she got hooked on dealing with depression and alienation, sold to her by a predatory drug dealer?

I personally don't feel that sex work is worse than any other work, unless we (society) make it so. I could be entirely wrong, but would a poor, struggling woman trying to do three non-sex jobs to feed that same child be in a particularly better position?

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#313

Post by im3w1l »

qPM9l3XJrF wrote: post #204
humpday69 wrote: post #6

"You operate a little bit like a therapist and confidante, most men do not want to f*k just a body, they want to f*k a soul."

That part was weird given that women on dating subreddits complain about how guys only want them for sex.

A guy who wants a relationship may only have sex with a handful of women. While a guy who just wants sex can get into the hundreds. That's hundreds of experiences reinforcing that men only want sex compared to just a few saying the opposite. Samppling bias you could say.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#314

Post by Yoric »

miracle2k wrote: post #237
zozbot234 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, legal sex work is often exploited as a safe haven for human trafficking. High end escorting is actually likely to be at the lower end of risk, but is ultimately too tiny of a niche for policymakers to care about preserving.

The reality is that despite being spun to a willing press as "human trafficking raids", these raids extremely rarely involve any human trafficking, and 99% of the woman being arrested, having their money confiscated, given criminal records, have their photos and names published online, lose their children etc. are in fact those same marginalized women who the state purports to want to help/save.

Do you have statistics at hand?

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#315

Post by watwut »

bjourne wrote: post #297
jonathanstrange wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think every rape charge leads to conviction, though. Moreover, saying that clients make prostitution unsafe is like saying that drivers make the roads unsafe. What's the point of that? I didn't present an argument for the legalization of prostitution. In my opinion, there is no need for an argument since it's completely obvious to any normal human being that it is not a crime. Why on earth would selling sex f…

You are using phrases such as "completely obvious", "common-sense", and "not controversial" where they aren't warranted. What is obvious to you may not be obvious to others. In Europe, laws around prostitution varies a lot. In some countries buying and selling sex is legal, in some only buying sex is illegal, and in others prostitution is completely forbidden. There appears to be no correlation between prostitutes' w…

> There appears to be no correlation between prostitutes' working conditions and the legality of prostitution. In Germany prostitution is legal, yet a massive number of women are trafficked from Eastern European countries to Germany, ostensibly because they are willing to sell sex cheaper than German women.

The prostitutes country of origin somehow proves that it being legal does make it safer? Where do you take information about this or that country prostitution working conditions from?

> Yes, police and social workers can make outdoor areas safer whether or not prostitution is legalized. That's a false dichotomy.

But that is different topic. The area being safe for general public is not the same thing as prostitutes being protected or able to call cops or able to use those social services.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#316

Post by iammisc »

EllieEffingMae wrote: post #119
iammisc wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, many men wake up with the desire to build things. That is not an atypical desire. Many men wake up with a desire to build things for money. Many women do as well. Few people wake up wanting to sell their procreative parts to the highest bidder.

If you're okay with one of these things but not the other, then you are applying a double standard based on a moralisation of sex. Sex as labour is no different than any labour, and there is no criticism of sex work that is whole an complete that does not also criticise the very system you're defending.

Sex is very different. Last I checked, no matter how much construction work you do, you will never construct another person, even by accident.

Sex is not just another activity. Due to its effects of potentially creating a new human being, it is a category unto itself and deserves special treatment.

For example, would you sell your pancreas? Why not? Is it because a vital organ is not in the same class of goods as say a lightbulb?

The same is true of selling sex, which is not just some social interaction, but a social interaction that can literally make a new person

Your kind of equivocation is morally lazy and conveniently abiological.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#317

Post by naasking »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #210
kfprt wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there no limit to what you would do for money?

Of course there's a limit, but... > If a woman is poor, struggling to survive or trying to give a child a decent life in a society and economic system that is very sink or swim, do you consider it "consent" if she agrees to have sex with you so she can pay the rent, or have a decent meal, or buy the drugs she got hooked on dealing with depression and alienation, sold to her by a predatory drug dealer? I give my boss…

> People tend to treat sex work like it's some sort of demeaning thing that no one should have to endure.

I think this is exactly it. Many people can't imagine themselves having sex for money. Most people also can't imagine cutting into people as they do in surgery, but we don't ban surgery.

The purported "difference" is that surgery helps people. Sure, and helping a disabled person experience human intimacy is not helping them?

Another purported difference is that prostitution harms people where surgery does not. I think plastic surgery harms quite a few people, psychologically and physically.

The real "problem" here is people's hang ups about sex.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#318

Post by dandare »

lelandfe wrote: post #169
Yoric wrote: post #156

Very interesting article. Do I understand correctly that sex work is still illegal in the US? If so, what's the rationale? Why can't consenting adults do what they want with their body?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_United_S... It’s illegal everywhere but certain parts of Nevada. When you walk around the streets of Las Vegas you’ll therefore see hundreds and hundreds of fliers for girls. As for the history… it’s a sordid one. Read e.g https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamberlain–Kahn_Act . The US imprisoned women with venereal diseases found near military bases. Things sort of w…

Are you sure it is a partisan issue? From what I know many progressives see any kind of sex work as exploitation of women.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#319

Post by naasking »

iammisc wrote: post #118
collegeburner wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of guys who dont wake up every day and say they want to sell their bodys for hard labor to the highest bidder, but it's decent work. Similar to how women can contract incurable, potentially-lethal venereal diseases as prostitutes, jobs like construction can really mess up a man's body. Doesn't mean we should ban them.

Yet, many men wake up with the desire to build things. That is not an atypical desire. Many men wake up with a desire to build things for money. Many women do as well. Few people wake up wanting to sell their procreative parts to the highest bidder.

> Few people wake up wanting to sell their procreative parts to the highest bidder.

Even supposing few people want to do that, I don't see how it follows that nobody should be permitted to do it. You're missing a critical step.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#320

Post by throwaway210222 »

Yoric wrote: post #312
eevilspock wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a woman is poor, struggling to survive or trying to give a child a decent life in a society and economic system that is very sink or swim, do you consider it "consent" if she agrees to have sex with you so she can pay the rent, or have a decent meal, or buy the drugs she got hooked on dealing with depression and alienation, sold to her by a predatory drug dealer?

I personally don't feel that sex work is worse than any other work, unless we (society) make it so. I could be entirely wrong, but would a poor, struggling woman trying to do three non-sex jobs to feed that same child be in a particularly better position?

This question has an answer.

If sex work is just like any other job, then many, if not most Western welfare societies demand that an unemployed person takes any job in their skill-set.

So you end up demanding women go back to the prostitution - because there is an opening at the local brothel next to the truck stop.

This isn't theoretical - it has happened more than once in Germany.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/no-job-no-excuse-for-turning-do...

https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/outrage-after...

So, no - its not normal work.

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