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Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

reuters.com

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Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#311

Post by skybrian »

Retric wrote: post #300
skybrian wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empty seats mean someone screwed up but how can you tell that a group of empty seats is unused due to a scalper, versus some group of people who couldn’t make it? When speculators don’t screw up, one fewer part being sold now means one more part that can be bought later. Delaying sales of some parts makes the shortage worse earlier and better later. Keeping inventory is a service to people who didn’t plan ahead. Some…

Your right concerts make it hard to tell why seats are empty however unsold inventory is part of the basic business model of reserving a section of supply at higher prices not simply a mistake. Airline seats are a better comparison. Airlines keep raising prices as inventory gets sold and flights near. However, that approach means they generally fly with significant unused excess capacity. The reverse approach where p…

Fair enough, my explanation was simplified and yield management is complex. Planes are full so airlines seem to be be doing better at it, though.

What raises the difficulty is that tickets expire - not a problem with selling electronic parts, though they do eventually become obsolete.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#312

Post by lvl100 »

whiteboardr wrote: post #4

@kliment summarized the why pretty well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26931498 Curious if this is true for all manufacturers.

This is not true at all. How many chips do you think the car industry needs for car parts? How many cars do you think they sell in a year? It’s not hard to figure it out. People parroting this narrative have no idea what’s happening behind the scene.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#313

Post by drdeca »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #231
hutrdvnj wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scalpers are not the problem as they seem, they are like market makers for stock exchanges. They buy low and sell high, always. The factory could tell you that they're currently out of stock for the next few months, but a scalper will never be out of stock, because their prices rises so high that only very few desperate companies would buy. The point is, it's better to have the option to buy something at a high price…

The way I see it, this makes sense in a hypothetical world of perfect theoretical models (you may recognize this world as being the one inhabited by frictionless, perfectly spherical cows). In this world, scalpers cause the market to price in "stickiness" - the more critical an item is to the buyer, the more they'll be willing to pay - so the supply ultimately gets allocated to the most desperate of buyers, for the p…

It seems to me like most of the (alleged) benefits of scalpers would be equally well achieved by selling (some fraction of) the items in auctions, instead of just picking a price.

However, my impression is that consumers would view this in a negative light, and that the harms to the seller’s reputation would be enough to outweigh the initially increased income. This seems to be the source of the inefficiencies that scalpers exploit/address.

This leads me to an idea which, I don’t believe is typically done, but which I don’t know why not: Why wouldn’t a company just, list a price that they are “going to sell it at”, and then “sell” a large proportion of them at that price to an entity which isn’t publicly connected to the company, and then that organization sells the items via auction (and returns a large proportion of the profits back to the company).

While on the one hand, I don’t see how I’d be able to tell if this was what was done, and therefore don’t see how to confirm that this isn’t what is being done in the cases where there are scalpers, I don’t think this is being done, and don’t know why.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#314

Post by basilgohar »

abfan1127 wrote: post #217
Retric wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can only do that by holding onto to supply which makes shortages worse. The same thing happens with ticket scalping at concerts, the difference is it’s more obvious that a sold out concert has empty seats vs supply sitting in a warehouse on the off chance it can be sold at 100x prices.

this is false. the supply would be gone at those low prices. Now they can be had for those who want it badly enough.

Your statement is false. Demand would be met with an increase in supply, satisfying all needs for the product and without the "help" of scalpers who sidestep supply-and-demand by artificially creating scarcity to drive up demand for their own profit. This is no help to anyone but themselves.

If there's a legitimate demand that will be used, then there's a good case for production to be increased to meet such demand, and all parties who need something would have their needs met.

At no point to scalpers make this system more efficient – they just serve to extract a greater profit from consumers and businesses for their own benefit by the aforementioned artificial scarcity that they make. This is also known as cornering the market, a well-known and despised practice that has been frequently used by morally corrupt individuals who sought only to benefit themselves. Nowhere can nor should the argument be made that scalpers help anyone but themselves.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#315

Post by jmccaf »

Hamuko wrote: post #138
paganel wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're already only a few months away from 2022, most (if not all) carmakers present on the EU market have included back-up cameras in their vehicles. I know that my brother's Dacia Logan built in 2019 already had one.

Backup cameras have been an optional extra for a long time sure, but I don't think I'm aware of any car that actually comes standard with one. Well, maybe a Mercedes-Benz S-Class. I do have a backup camera in my 10-year-old Benz, but I imagine that the original owner paid a four-digit amount of euros for it back in the day.

'Rear Visibility' is required in new cars in US by FMVSS 111. Test procedure mandates field of view to rear of vehicles during backing, that are practical to satisfy with cameras. mirrors would require like a periscope to satisfy.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#316

Post by op00to »

hutrdvnj wrote: post #137
kbaker wrote: post #114

One important part of the chip shortage is the massive amount of price gouging going on. Every IC is being bought up by new 3rd party distributors to scalp to desperate electronics manufacturers. Take a look at this chip we are just now crossing as an example, click on 'Non-authorized stocking distributors': https://octopart.com/tps2052bdgnr-texas+instruments-699312?r... Win Source has a bunch, but you will pay 6x th…

Scalpers are not the problem as they seem, they are like market makers for stock exchanges. They buy low and sell high, always. The factory could tell you that they're currently out of stock for the next few months, but a scalper will never be out of stock, because their prices rises so high that only very few desperate companies would buy. The point is, it's better to have the option to buy something at a high price…

You ignore that a scalper can easily slip counterfeits into the mix. An authorized reseller would be ruined if they did that.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#317

Post by treeman79 »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #306
yholio wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scalpers perform a social service by rationing demand and ensuring availability. They don't eat the whole consumer surplus, rather, they must compete amongst themselves and the price you pay is the amount that makes client N+1 walk away if total supply is N. Some of the buyers will find that close to their margin, but others, for which the product is essential in very valuable (thus socially useful) goods or services…

In a civilized society it is the governments burden and obligation to ensure scarce resources are shared responsibly. When this process is disrupted and not quickly remedied you will inevitably discover that people take matters into their hands to get what they need. They might commit white collar crimes or engage in destructive or violent robberies and protests. They might also roll out the guillotines and collect s…

The government is often the cause of scarcity.

If price sky rocket, investors will increases production until prices are lower.

Government can mess with this by limit prices causing investors to stay away, meaning fewer chips get built, thus ensuing a temporary problem gets worse.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#318

Post by [deleted] »

drdeca wrote: post #313
TeMPOraL wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, this makes sense in a hypothetical world of perfect theoretical models (you may recognize this world as being the one inhabited by frictionless, perfectly spherical cows). In this world, scalpers cause the market to price in "stickiness" - the more critical an item is to the buyer, the more they'll be willing to pay - so the supply ultimately gets allocated to the most desperate of buyers, for the p…

It seems to me like most of the (alleged) benefits of scalpers would be equally well achieved by selling (some fraction of) the items in auctions, instead of just picking a price. However, my impression is that consumers would view this in a negative light, and that the harms to the seller’s reputation would be enough to outweigh the initially increased income. This seems to be the source of the inefficiencies that s…

[deleted]

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#319

Post by s0rce »

jdmichal wrote: post #264
caeril wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, lots of internet people who don't want to be tracked (license plate readers notwithstanding). But also plenty of IRL people complaining about how, for example, they miss their $10k pickup with no power anything that worked great for anytime they needed to haul material X from location M to N, but now you need to drop a minimum of $50k for a vehicle you might use once per weekend to haul gravel, insulation, ceme…

Ignoring everything else, that new truck is much larger. Compact trucks have not really existed in the US market for a decade at least. An old Ford Ranger was 175-200 inches long depending on year and model. The new one is 200-210 inches. Sort this list by class and you'll see a total of two compact trucks in the US market. Both are debuting either this year or the next: Ford Maverick (200") and Hyundai Santa Cruz (1…

Those new "compact" trucks are sadly still 2ft longer than old compact trucks from the early 90s. Can't get anything small anymore.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#320

Post by yibg »

caeril wrote: post #70
clintonb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the _market_ begging, or a few folks on the internet? The only folks I know that complain about technology in cars are a couple posters on internet forums.

Sure, lots of internet people who don't want to be tracked (license plate readers notwithstanding). But also plenty of IRL people complaining about how, for example, they miss their $10k pickup with no power anything that worked great for anytime they needed to haul material X from location M to N, but now you need to drop a minimum of $50k for a vehicle you might use once per weekend to haul gravel, insulation, ceme…

People can have nostalgia for stuff they grew up with but when it comes down to it don't actually want to spend the money to buy it now.

I reminisce about 90s sports cars that I used to dream about too. But then I think about the lack of bluetooth, keyless start, the low power output, poor handling, poor safety, poor fuel economy, and I just buy a modern car instead.

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